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I find it very difficult to get people to hear what I am saying. They find the hateful words that are in the Quran, Hadith, and Sira to be mine and therefore I am the hateful person. I do not hold these views but I pay the price as if I do.
ReplyDeleteFinally Figured Out Islam
If as your name suggests you've finally figured out Islam, then you're on the right path. It now becomes your task to show others that you are not like the others by distancing yourself from them and telling the truth. If it really isn't your problem you alone have to decide and keep on your new path.
DeleteThere seems to be two basic categories of Jihad; war-like terrorism and taqiyya. Unfortunately, the terrorism is the most easily countered because people (with a brain) see it for what it is. All of the non-violent forms make it easy to deceive the slumbering, gullible public and I'm afraid there are too few of us that recognize the threat of jihad. Until the general public comes to understand that Islam is a government hiding behind a religious front that is totally incompatible with our constitutional form of government we are losing the war. Unfortunately our government controlled media, or is it media controlled government, continues to feed misinformation and politically correct crap.
ReplyDeletePolitical Islam and its ideologies of Jihad (Holy War against non-muslims), Sharia (Islamic Law, which mandates the subjugation, oppression and exploitation of non-muslims and women), Taqiyya (deceit), Nasikh
ReplyDelete(Abrogation of peaceful verses revealed in Mecca by the Jihad and Sharia verses revealed in Medina), Al-Hijra (migration), etc. should be taught in the Political Science Departments of Universities across the United Sates and the world. This will produce university graduates with a good understanding of Political Islam.
Rama
Indeed they should, but Arab monies underpin universities in Europe to the extent that political science and other departments are somewhat curtailed in their freedoms. That, coupled with the idiotic notions of political correctness which means that the excesses of Islam are treated with kid gloves, and added to those the ever-present sense of threat if the cult of permanent offence should kick off, makes such outspokenness well-nigh impossible.
DeleteThis is a FANTASTIC idea!!!!
ReplyDeleteFirst and most obvious, since Jihad has killed millions and threatens to kill us, we should take time to bone up on Islam--its history, doctrines and practices. Take the time to read some basic books. Then we will all be thoughtful strategists and not just shooting the breeze.
ReplyDeleteFinally Figured Out Islam: The same thing is happening to Geert Wilders. It's crazy! He only showed Muslims speaking and acting, and showed quotes from the Quran about those actions, but HE is being charged with hate speech. If we can make this point clear and make it obvious how crazy it is, it would go a long way to ending getting over this first hurdle.
ReplyDeleteSheepdog, if we didn't have the internet, we'd be dead in the water.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean.
DeleteYet I wonder. The internet permits huge numbers of us to remain anonymous but think we are accomplishing something real. If there were no possibility of that half- or quarter-commitment to the cause, maybe more people would step forward under their own names and faces. Without the internet, the pressure of outrage and protest would have no easy anonymous release valve, and so real, open resistance to Islamization might burst out more publicly.
To some extent, being anonymous makes what one says unreal. No one specific has said it. It has not been said by someone who cares about it enough to sign his actual name to it. What if the signers of the Declaration of Independence had all written "anonymous," or a pen name, instead of their John Hancocks?
At any rate, there's a downside to this internet thing as well as an upside. When all's said and done, the upside is probably bigger than the downside, but perhaps not as much bigger as we often assume.
Time for me to come out of the closet, YES its VERY real. Group up, its almost tme those who are not aware, are usless, those of you who know the truth, use it. Be ready. becuase they are deeply embedded in the government, the LEO, and scholls, just as you have been told. Looks like, the cream of the crop, is us, those who know. Sad, after our forefathers warned us, but not htere fault, the dumbing down was done nicely, perfectally. now, its coming no matter what. The western world is at full war, now.
Deletewe must be as wollfs, in sheeps clothing now, they are, and have been for 27 years now. Bought there way in with our oil money..I AM Robinson Caruso II. Now you know why lol..Im sorry i went so far away, to survive it, i did so, becuase i saw it years ago, and NO ONE would listen. So I found a place on this planet that I van survive it. BUT, i still try to educate. ALL are educated here where i am. And our word to them, dont even think about it. We are like Isrieal, ready, and strong. And we will not give in. Ever. peace yall
To step up right now, in our own names, is to expose our location, and target us, they own the net..
DeleteToday another Muslim, in Chicago, was arrested for trying to blow up buildings, poison the water supply or cause other havoc. I cannot understand how any Muslim sympathizer fails to connect the dots - you don't hear of any other group doing this type of stuff all over the world - because the Muslims are the only ones whose religious and politics takes them in that direction.
ReplyDeleteThe rebuttal about the crusades is common. Here is how I tackle it.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope told Christians that their sins would be forgiven if they fought in the crusades, but war against infidels is not commanded by Christianity, nor are one's sins forgiven this way. Noone had bibles in those days so they couldn't check if the Pope's declarations were based on the original scriptures. When Martin Luther finally got hold of one of the oldest Greek manuscripts, he translated it and found that salvation was 'free', not earnt, paid for, or granted by popes or priests. This started the reformation.
The opposite has occurred in Islam. Like Christians before the Reformation, muslims depended on the Imam to tell them what Islam was about. Mostly the imam would teach only the nice parts, except when war broke out would he instruct the soldiers about jihad. But lately, with increased literacy and availablity of Qurans, anyone can now read it for themselves in his or her language. So, when you scrape back Christianity to its raw state, you do not get the "crusades" anywhere in it. But when you do the same with Islam ie scrape it back to its pure form, the Quran, you get this .....
Watch this program on the terror attacks in Mumbai, India, and see and hear the result of reading and following the Quran. The chilling intercepted phonecalls between the boss in Pakistan and the jihadists in Mumbai is very revealing, as you can hear him quoting verses from the Quran to inspire them on to kill more infidels in cold blood;
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2642355.htm
To someone not familiar with the Quran, they wouldn't recognise the verses and think he was just a madman.
Note: If you watch this program, could you please make a note of the verses he quotes, as I would like to put a sura number on them? I can't bring myself to watch hit again as it was so disturbing.
thanks
SHARIA-OCRACY
ReplyDeleteIslam makes the attainment of political goals a religious duty (h/t CW); in Islam politics-law-religion are inseparable. Islam's express ambition is to bring the world into a state of submission to 'allah' and 'divine' sharia law. Therefore, any promotion of sharia in any non-islamic nation is an act of sedition - it is incitement to insurrection, the over throw of that nation's government and its replacement with islamic sharia law. Sharia condemns liberty, forbids equality and reject national borders. Sharia violates the US Constitution. My disposition toward the ideology of islam/sharia is rational, intelligent and sound. The continued promotion of the proposition that islam is a religion of peace is bias, uninformed and suicidal.
That said, we who love liberty and oppose the imposition of such law must stand together. Keys? Consistent messages, sane arguments, handy references and citations (in context, provided by the sira and hadith), all delivered through radio call-ins, TV newsbites, council meetings, communications with electeds, schools, political party platforms, discussions at the grocery store, church, gym and with our children. Current affairs as well as history are rich with opportunities to invite, inform and challenge. What do you know about islam and how did you come to know it? I'm for liberty, how about you?
This is an exchange between me and another member at another site. We "argue" all the time about Muslims and he defends their right to be protected under our Constitution without limit. On this site we are formed of military, LE, veterans and civilians who take the oath to uphold the constitution and protect the country against enemies both foreign and domestic. Part of our mission statement is to Reach, Teach and Inspire, also that under martial law we will not disarm civilians...
ReplyDeleteME: So, let me see...we should only talk about what the Active Duty people want to talk about...would that be maybe the killing of their fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood by a Muslim and now wonder whenever they have to serve next to one where that persons allegiences really are? But ya see, they can't say that out loud on a regular military forum can they? They could talk about it here under an assumed name and info can be shared. Or we can only talk about what is important to LE? Well that would probably be about the illegal Mexicans crossing over our southern borders by the thousands and terrorizing our cities, bringing in drugs, killing, taking resources such as health care, welfare and educational benefits that should be going to American citizens and legal immigrants.
Or should we be talking about what is important to DOJ personnel or all the new czars appointed by this administration who is jamming socialism down our throats? Will IRS agents be included in this group when they are required to garnish your wages because you didn't buy the governmental healthcare which clearly goes against the Commerce Clause? Are we actively recruiting IRS agents? They can seize our property. Also against the Constitution.
So who decides what topics are valid for who to talk about? Are we to assume that all of these "special" members are going to blindly follow OK's mission and go against their sworn duty just because of this membership when they do not have the facts of what is really going on at any given moment? Do they read every piece of news out there to keep up to date? Probably not. Who is to say that in something like Katrina there isn't an area that there is a bunch of gangbangers shooting at the police and military and they are given orders to go in and disarm them...do you think that because of the OK oath they are going to say NO? If they did, what use are they? If there is a muslim training center and LE is told to go in and disarm them, are they going to say NO because no one wants to believe that there are bad muslims here and don't want to hurt their feelings? Shouldn't we as a group discuss what is out there, how to handle things, share info, figure out how to bring this country back as close to the Constitution and honest politics in order to support our military and LE to make their jobs easier and keep all of us safer and at the same time prepared if TSHTF? Im sure our LE and military could give us good information on what to do, what we should be doing...for a natural disaster or a political one. Those of you who don't want to hear it or join in, just don't...go to another thread but stop calling people names like bigots, racists and ignorant.
response is below:
This is the response from the above:
ReplyDeleteOther Person: Well, if nothing else, we've been given four really good words to remember:
BIGOT
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
RACISM
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
IGNORANT
: destitute of knowledge or education; lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence
EMBARRASS
: to place in doubt, perplexity, or difficulties
: to cause to experience a state of self-conscious distress.
Ok, this is only one very nice exchange between us. We recently changed servers and so all of our other stuff has been erased so we are now starting new"arguments"about who is right about Islam.I have a few but won't slam the site, thought that I would share this one though since this is what this person calls me on a regular basis.
9-11, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM
ReplyDeleteThe brief transcript does not contain any Qur'an quotes. I was not able to get the video to play.
ReplyDeleteGet me a full transcript of all the phone intercepts and I will mine it for quotes.
americans tend not to be too knowledgeable about language, culture ,geography of other countries. We need to show our friends that islam has committed all sorts of atrocities on other ethnic groups in other countries, ex muslims against buddhists in thailand, muslims against catholics in the phillipines, muslims against hindus in Bali, muslim against christians in ambon,and dili ,indonesia, muslims against hindus in kashmir, muslims against hindus and buddhists in bangladesh etc etc..so islam is an esqual opportunity war machine. Anonym.
ReplyDeleteBecoming an effective persuader about Islam is very challenging, certainly for me.
ReplyDeleteI think the obstacle that I personally find largest is an awareness of my own insufficient knowledge. I've studied Islam a great deal, but in my heart of hearts, I know I haven't yet mastered it, and so I am inwardly not completely confident in the rightness of my views about Islam.
The problem is, there is so much to know. It's not just knowing the Qur'an well (I still haven't read it all), but also the sahih hadith collections and Sira, as well as Tafsir or major interpretations of the Qur'an. One also needs to work pretty hard to read and understand all the polls that have been done of Muslims around the world with regard to their alleged desires for sharia law. One frequently hears that 40%, or 60% or even larger percentages want sharia law. Yet I recall reading in one report that many of the Muslims who apparently supported sharia, were against it when the poll spelled out what sharia law means. One cannot just rely on what some blogger -- even the most famous and brilliant -- tells you a poll means. One has to go and read the poll questions, and think about the answers, and that turns out to be rather difficult and to take time, and leaves one with many questions.
One also has to look at the extent to which sharia is applied in Muslim countries around the world. To what extent are non-Muslims discriminated against. I have done some of that by looking at the individual country reports put out yearly by the State Department (Int'l Religious Freedom Report 2009, for example).
Perhaps I am just tired. I also find it difficult to invest so much time in something that I cannot share with people much, except through the internet. If I talked about such things in my work, I could be fired. That's where Citizen Warrior's advice is crucial. If one is going to bring these things up in potentially hostile environments, one must be extremely graceful, casual, light, and seemingly detached from the issue. It cannot seem to be an obsession, something one harps on, or beats a constant drum on, or monopolizes a conversation with. One must perhaps make the other think that he, not you, is the one continuing the conversation on Islam. But if one is going to do all that, one should be very confident of one's views, and perhaps I'm not there yet.
Sometimes I just feel a little strange, being involved in a sort of secret underground war against an ideology. Part of me hates the anonymity, the hiding behind a screen name. But I also hate that there are risks to being public. Going public means having a lot more knowledge than I do. But even if I ever acquired sufficient knowledge -- and at this point I'm far enough along that a certain level of mastery is not so far out of reach -- even if I acquired sufficient knowledge, would I want to go public and then potentially be forced to devote my life to an ideological war against Islam? I hate the negativity of that role. I suppose one could find a way to give it a loving and positive spin. "I love Muslims, that's why I do this," etc. Perhaps.
Sorry about this meandering blabbering.
I rather appreciated your meandering, Traeh. I have felt the same way about wanting to learn more. There always seems to be more to learn before I really feel like an expert. And yet, most people don't even know the most rudimentary things about Islam. Someone asked me the other day, "Where is Islam?" as if it was a country or region (although that depth of ignorance is rare).
ReplyDeleteBut even still, most people don't know much about Islam. I just read a poll of Americans that said 24 percent thought Islam was a peaceful religion and 30 percent were unsure. When I read that, I thought, "That means 30 percent only need a little more information to tip them to our side."
Traeh, your last big paragraph really resonated with me. It is indeed strange being involved in a sort of secret underground war against an ideology. And it IS negative. Find a loving and positive spin? That's a tough one, but maybe not as tough as it seems. I usually refer to my work as "saving the free world" when I'm talking to my friends. They ask me what I did over the weekend. I often answer something like, "Same old thing, trying to save the free world." It is somewhat self-mocking, but it is also true and they know it's true, and many of them admire me for it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I am getting off work, someone might ask me, "What are you up to tonight?" I sometimes answer, "I'll be fighting to save the free world, what about you?"
I think of the role as extremely positive myself, although the content of the task is admittedly sometimes negative.
In my own assessment, I cast our work in an heroic light. All throughout history, the fight has continued, good against evil, in its many forms. And most of my favorite movies depict some sort of battle between good and evil. Movies are a kind of symbolic value-system reinforcement.
What makes movies like Lord of the Rings epic is, I think, its universal message: That the forces of darkness are always gathering and that people of good heart and good intentions are always fighting to keep the good side winning.
As far as I can tell, it will never stop, so we might as well hunker down and enjoy the fight. And I really do think there is something to ENJOY about this fight. I love the feeling of meaningfulness and purposefulness this work bestows upon its warriors.
Someone at work was talking about 2012 and "the end of the world" the other day and many people joined in the discussion. My feeling was that they all lacked a sense of meaning, and many of them had a secret wish that something world-shaking WOULD happen in 2012 because they have nothing historically meaningful in their lives, nothing that gives them a sense of significance. I think people NEED that to really feel fully alive. And I didn't feel I was missing that element in the slightest and I didn't share their secret wish.
I feel I am engaged in a life-or-death battle for the fate of the planet, and I have met some magnificient people in this battle, good people who have become my friends and fellow warriors.
This is not a sure thing. It is not certain how things will turn out. There are many people AGAINST what we're doing. There are secret forces fighting to subvert the freedoms we our predecessors fought so hard to win. This is really and truly a BATTLE, a fight for the playing field, a war of historical significance. And we must win.
The mainstream media focuses on the horror of war, and the psychological scars of war, but there is also the "joy of war," if you could call it that — the feeling during a war that what is happening is more real and more significant and more urgent and more important than anything that happens in "normal" life. I've talked to WW2 vets who have told me that during the war they were more alive than any time since then, and that the bonds they formed under those circumstances withstood the test of time better than any other bonds.
Now I'M meandering. What I meant to say, though, is that although this sometimes feels like a "negative" thing we're doing, in some ways that's what makes the fight so important, so significant, and so ultimately satisfying. And that's positive.
Just tell them what you are all about, Hard Work,Clean Living and telling the truth...that's all I do. !!!
DeleteI absolutely love your web site and wish I'd discovered it a year ago because it would have taken only 3 months or less to be where I'm at now after a year of obsessive study. Then again, I think I did see your site a while back and maybe I wasn't ready for it. You have helped things to crystalize to a point where there is no going back. I'm not alone, I have other friends who are as oddly obsessed as I am. I jokingly liken us to people who have found religion and are going around trying to spread it. Indeed! We have found the truth about Islam and we want everyone to know.
ReplyDeleteStill thanks to you, I see very clearly what it is and what they are doing and why they are doing it but there is another layer.
What is more frightening than Islam is the reaction to it from Western "leaders". As Sam Harris once said "In Europe they aren't even putting up a fight. They have drawn a chalk body outline and are simply lying down in it. At face value it would seem as if they are just as ignorant as the people who think the ground zero mosque issue is an issue of religious tolerance (well it is - but conversely)But we know they can't really be this ignorant. SO WTF are they doing?
As anyone from my generation can remember, we were raised fearing communism and communists. It would seem that we have overly learned from our mistakes and now when we have something that really IS just as bad as the propaganda made communism out to be, we are too politically coreect to defend ourselves.
But if the conspiracy theorists are at all right and the fear of communism was encouraged to create a need for larger government and military. The also think the fear of Islam is being perpetrated for the same reasons. I think there could be a point to that. Not to minimize the genuine threat of Islam but it seems that our own governmwents know that we are too savvy to go for fear tactics, they need to actually let this enemy take over to bring us to our knees. Ans the way they would go about letting that enemy take over is to do exactly what they've been doing in Europe and here and to fortify the media with slams against the people who can see what's going on. The media got rid of the word Islamofascism but uses Islamophobia regularly.
I don't just fear Islam, I fear the stench of conspiracy around our leaders.
UR Right.There is the stench of Conspiracy !!More so in 2014.
DeleteHi all! I found the Team B II Report, Shariah The Threat to America, downloadable from www.shariahthethreat.org, extremely useful in clarifying my thoughts as it identifies sharia as the 'fault-line", not muslims as a whole. It is a heavy read (177 pages) but it helpfully contains a short, Key Findings section. Written by top security policy experts, it gives, I feel, all the information/evidence needed to present a strong argument. It is also quite terrifying, I must add. Tough times, but people are bound to wake up eventually, so let us be patient... ;)
ReplyDeleteIf the Muslim religion is tied to Islam and Sharia, then we definately need to change the "definition" of Religion in the US constitution. To say that Religion is a faith that teaches love and forgivenes and is not a threat to other religions. Once that is stablished. Then we can review the koran (And any other religions), and enforce US Muslims in Mosques to edit verses in the Koran(the teachings) that tie the Muslim faith (koran)with a Law (sharia) that teaches intolerance and killing of anyone who does not believe in the Muslim faith. Only until the Koran is revised (or abrogated as they say), it cannot coexist with different religions. Keep in mind Sharia are "hadiths", laws that were written not by the prophet Muhammad, but by followers.
ReplyDeleteYou are one of my favorite sources of inspiration and info in my anti-jihad efforts. I developed a personal mailing list and every day or so, I select an email from a subscription or a blog post or a webpage that deals with some sort of worthwhile Islamic education. When i created the list, i first sent an explanation and that i would delete any opposers. Only a few did. Since then, a few more have dropped off, but many have thanked me and i know i'm helping educate many who would not have otherwise bothered with such a controversial topic.
ReplyDeleteBut to traeh's concern about being a viewed a fanatic, people will have an opinion about me because i'm a Christian too. But when your eyes are opened to the horrifying truth of the Bible and you see how Islam is fulfilling prophecy today, it would be heartless and cruel of me if i didn't try to warn everyone i can with as much passion as the situation allows so i don't come off as a crazy. Which means i speak, i don't scream. And i speak from knowledge i personally gained by hundreds of hours of personal research, not spouting off hearsay and attacking others. Most Muslims are indoctrinated not to be critical thinkers and its the only thing they've known since birth. I don't blame them as individuals. I feel sorry for them, but i fight against Islam because it is the Kudzu of society.
I also placed a huge magnet on both sides of my car which says:
STOP ISLAMIZATION OF AMERICA
OUTLAW SHARIA
www.citizenwatch.com
And i created similar "business cards" to hand out if appropriate.
Thank you, Linda. I appreciate what you're doing, and how you're doing it. I'm sure you got it right on the business cards and magnet, but citizenwatch.com goes to a web site for really nice timepieces!
ReplyDelete;-)
I like how organized you are with your emailings. I'm sure many of the people you send them to also send them on to others. Well done.
too much "time" on the computer today. yikes! you know what i meant
ReplyDeletewww.citizenwarrior.com
A really good site and I really like what is up at Citizen warrior. I can use most of what you have up there. It is very difficult to talk with most people about islam as so many are clueless and believe what they read and hear through the LSM and from the propaganda that the gov't peddles. Having been branded a racist and islamophobe, among most other names, I just do not care as long as people give me a chance and listen or read what I say or post on my blog. Thanks again for such an informative and open site.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the reply, citizenwarrior. I appreciate the thoughts and encouragement.
ReplyDeleteYour website is an extraordinary resource in terms of its content, but also in the rhetorical mode you adopt, your manner, or tone. Its lightness of touch reminds of no other Islam-critical website I know. Your light style, in fact, reminds me of some huge circulation popular magazine addressed to the broadest possible audience, rather than to ideologues, bloggers, and intellectuals. Your adoption of that light style has something fiendishly clever about it: instead of trying to prove that your position is correct, which is what intellectuals try to do with their positions, you do not explicitly try to prove your positions, in a way. Instead, you write almost as though what you were saying were established by scientific experts -- sort of in the manner that, say, Readers' Digest might have an article about, say, some illness and tell the readers cheerfully what the consensus of medical doctors is about that disease, and then proceed to present to readers some sort of helpful numbered checklist on the disease and what to do about it. Where other Islam-critical bloggers are all presenting their opinions -- sometimes extremely learned and brilliant ones, but still, opinions -- you give the impression you are not giving opinions, and in that sense your style is much less personal, in a way, and has a chance to be more persuasive, than the style of all the other bloggers critiquing Islam. I wonder if you were or still are a writer for magazines with large circulations...Anyway, as you know, I appreciate the absence of relentless negativity in your articles. I read other Islam-critical sites, and as great as some are, still the negativity of the tone wears me down after a while. Somehow, you manage to keep the negativity of critiquing Islam from destroying your fresh, positive, and breezy mood of writing. And that's a relief. Sometimes, it's true, that breezy impersonal large circulation style pop writing feels a little weird to me -- the fact that it's not presented as the argumentative opinions of an ideologue intellectual individual promoting his patented unique worldview, and the fact that you instead present yourself in a way as conveying something as objective as, say, medical advice about an uncontroversial malady -- the fact that you do it that way to some extent subtracts your personality the language, and makes it a little automatic sounding, or something, in the way one of those big circulation mags can sometimes sound. Perhaps that's all part of a calculated technology of persuasion, such as you have talked about in some of the articles here, and alluded to as being present in several books you have suggested readers to read about effective persuasion.
Anyway, thanks again for this website. I come here regularly and look around and learn and get encouraged.
Thanks, Traeh. I do my best to not only portray someone in a good mood, I try to actually stay in a good mood, and that is no easy task in this "business."
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have a series of articles coming up on Citizen Warrior about the need for all of us to keep ourselves from getting in bad moods. It is unhealthy, it doesn't help the cause, and it impairs your ability to influence others.
Or to put it more positively, staying in a good mood is healthier, helps us persist and be effective in our task, and improves our ability to influence others. And there are specific things we can do to prevent the frustration, anger and feeling of defeat that seems to come with the territory — things that will help us genuinely feel better (rather than "acting as if" we feel better).
Anyway, thank you for what you said. I like your style and content, too. I often see comments of yours over at Jihad Watch and other places, and they're usually the best comments. And yes, I have been published in popular magazines, including Reader's Digest! But not as Citizen Warrior.
DeNazification. At WW2' end, we had many Nazis to attempt to rehabilitate. The most effective way was to ask. Our people asked Nazis, diehard Nazis, to explain their beliefs. Over days, by neutrally, and expertly, asking questions, most Nazis began to see the error of their thinking.
ReplyDeleteThis is how we should discuss Islam with Moslems. First, we must know Islam at least well enough to ask the proper questions. Then calmly, neutrally ask. Ask if the Koran is the direct, recited word of Allah. Ask if a Muslim must follow every word of the Koran, for all time.
When they say yes, ask if all Muslims must follow Sura#9. Then ask them to explain Sura#9-5. Tell them you want to understand Islam.
Ask them if Mohammad was the perfect man. If yes, must all follow Muslims attempt to emulate all his actions and commands. Then ask why did Muhammad have an old woman murdered because she criticized him. Was Muhammad right in ordering two people blinded with red-hot pokers, and then have their hands and feet cut off. Was he right to order them left in the desert on hot rocks, with the order to give them no water. Say that you are trying to understand Islam, and this puzzled you.
Always talk in a calm, neutral, learning manner. You will get amazing results.
Zizka, I've always encouraged people to avoid wasting time trying to convince Muslims to leave their religion because there are so many non-Muslims who have yet to be informed. But I like your suggestions.
ReplyDeleteI am assuming you come into contact with a lot of Muslims, is that correct?
I just received this excellent comment via email:
ReplyDeleteWe must always separate the individual from the ideology. The nice Moslem family down the block is just that; the nice Muslim family down the block. We oppose the ideology of Islam, not the individual Moslem. Fortunately for us, most Muslims are like most religious people everywhere: They don't know the tenets of their faith.
Ask, in a neutral, learning mode, if Sura#9 of the Koran is binding on all Muslims, for today and all eternity. If yes, as they must answer, ask if Sura#9:5 is binding on them personally? Say you are curious as to what Sua9:5 means, and why it is binding now, on the Moslem you are asking?
Again, ask if Mohammad is the perfect man, and if all Moslems must attempt to emulate all his actions? They must say yes. Ask them to explain his consummation of his marriage to Aisha when she was 9 years old? Must Moslems attempt to emulate Mohammad in this? Ask, is buying and selling slaves emulating Mohammad? Was Mohammad wrong in torturing Kinana by fire to reveal hidden treasure, and then beheading him? Was he wrong in having sex with Kinana's widow, Saffiya, on the eve of her husband's torture and death?
Do not say this in a challenging way. Challenging always stops discussion, and forces justification, not truth. Ask in a neutral, learning way. Say that you are interested in learning about Islam, and you have heard these things, and want to know if they are true, and why. (Keep in mind the Koran is from Allah's mouth to the Moslem's ear. Koran means recitation, what the angel Gabriel read form the eternal Koran in Allah's heaven, and whispered into Mohammad's ear.)
I would like to encourage everyone on this page to keep up the good work especially those who have made it an avocation. Thank you for your dedication to informing the rest of us. Do any of you know of this site?http://www.politicalislam.com/ A fb friend of mine has been posting writings off the blog above and generally beating the drum for the last several months since the announcement of the ground zero mosque. She announced tonight that her life has been threatened for her postings and anti-islamic stance. Kudos for your hard work. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know PoliticalIslam.com. And I'm sure most of the others know about it too. Bill Warner has done what I consider to be the single best thing that has been done so far for the counterjihad movement: He wrote a readable Quran.
ReplyDeleteHe's one of our Citizen Warrior Heroes:
http://citizenwarriors.com/2008/07/bill-warner.html
On the article, How to Stay Calm When Talking About Islam, someone left this comment:
ReplyDeleteDo not win. If you win, someone loses. You feel good, and you have lost by winning. Your opponent becomes angry, and more stubborn.
You want to enlighten, and thus persuade. You do not want an opponent. As soon as you have an opponent, you have lost. Opponents are crushed, not enlightened.
In your mind, you have someone seeking knowledge. Keep this mindset. If the other person rants and raves, become calmer. Eventually, he will either calm down and listen, or else sulk off, dejected and sullen.
If there is an audience, you win, by default, and calmness. If only you and him, you have gained experience in staying, and thinking, calm. No matter what, you win.
If he listens, you win. You always win, by not winning.
Someone just left a comment on the article, When People Think You're Nuts:
ReplyDeleteModest, achievable goals. Great idea!
My modest goal is to introduce doubt. Once a jury member has conceived a serious doubt, he can no longer convict. This is how to influence people. We introduce a substantial, serious doubt into their pre-conceived ideas. We give them a fact that throws their theory right out the window. We can consider this as similar to placing sand in an oyster...eventually a pearl is formed around it.
We must establish this irritating fact very quickly and very firmly. This takes study. We must find a way to phrase it that sticks clearly in their minds. It must be clear, brief and memorable.
That's not an easy task, but it's the way to defeat the Death Cult called Islam.
An example of this is the following: Say a person believes Islam is the religion of peace...How do they maintain that when there have been 3 deadly jihad attacks every day since 9-11? Surely, 16,000 jihad attacks suggest Islam is a religion of jihad and terror, not peace.
Find out the error that the person believes firmly and introduce a nagging doubt.
I have a Youtube channel which educates people about the evils of islam with over 1300 friends. All of them are against islam. It is amazing to see how the number of people sending me friend invites is steadily increasing. I also realized that if you talk to people about the evils of islam, they first are a bit sceptical because they often can't believe it's that bad. I then don't try to push it because I don't want them to think I am a fanatic or something like that. But more often than not, I see them coming back a couple of days later and say that they just read this and that and saw this in the news etc and that they are really getting concerned. They wouldn't have realized it if I hadn't made them aware of it. There's a lot of people out there who dislike islam and they want something to be done about it. I believe if we had an organization that would unite all these people worldwide, it would be much easier to fight the spread of the hateful and backward ideology of islam.
ReplyDeleteExcellent. Yes, people at first can't believe it's that bad. I had the same reaction when I first started learning about it.
ReplyDeleteYes, people want something they can DO about it. I've created a page of practical things people can do. Maybe you can share it with your friends:
WhatYouCanDoAboutIslam.com
And I agree: We need to organize. That's the next stage in the counterjihad movement, I think.
Following 9/11, I picked up a Koran at the local book store and started to read. It took me less than ten pages to realize that Mo was a psychopath. If Ted Bundy ever decided to become a prophet his book would resemble the Koran. There was a duality to Ted, too. He killed but he also worked for a suicide prevention hot line. Psychopathy is both charming and ruthless. I tried to share what I learned from reading the Koran with others but some people actually said that the murderous verses didn't exist and that I was imagining things. Because I was outnumbered I actually doubted my senses. Finally, I learned about Act for America from listening to a radio show and got connected with a local chapter. My chapter leader communicates via Facebook so I was obliged to join, something I never thought I would do because I am a very private person. Out of fourteen Facebook friends, three have defriended me because of my honesty about Islam. I haven't heard a peep out of the other eleven friends; no "like" no "comment" no nothing. It's as if they are in shock.
ReplyDeleteAt http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/ you will find in the menu, a page with fliers you can use as email attachments or print, fold and distribute.
ReplyDeleteEach flier contains relevant quotes from the Qur'an & hadith.
It might help to carry a Qur'an with the more important ayat highlighted and tabbed for easy reference.
We need to organize as you say.
ReplyDeleteYour wise heads would be greatly appreciated at http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/index/
My Dad was impressed that I had been reading the Qur'an (he thought it seemed like an intellectual thing to do). I told him I was trying my best but it's an incredibly boring book. To illustrate my point, I said 'It's so predictable. In fact, I'll open this Qur'an at random and I bet I can tell you what it will say. It will talk about how wonderful Paradise will be for the Muslims, and it will give a vivid description of hell for the non-believers'. I opened the book at random and sure enough, I was correct. My Dad couldn't believe it; he thought I'd rigged it. So I told him to open it at random for himself. He did, and, once again, there was a dire threat of hell coupled with a promise of paradise.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the value in this exercise? Well, firstly it reinforced the idea that there is nothing sacred about the Qur'an. A book written by God would surely not be simply a repetitive list of promises of heaven and threats of hell. It is not above criticism.
It also shocked my father. He saw for the first time what a hateful book it is. Next time he hears about a suicide bombing on the news or whatever, he will remember the hatred contained in the Qur'an and know that there is a problem at the very root of the religion which has gone unaddressed for long enough.
This 'random page' thing is also proof that when jihadis believe they are getting numerous sexual slaves in paradise, it isn't some wild idea by those who hijack the Islamic faith - it's right there in the Qur'an. It squashes the idea we're fed that we have to respect Islam and not criticise it because Islam has such lofty, high moral standards, especially regarding sex. The concept of paradise in the Qur'an is, in my view, one of the most disgusting and degrading things about the religion.
Most people won't ever sit down and read the Qur'an because it's time-consuming and it's like a long, slow, boring hike. So this is a way to convey the nature of the book to them and to get them interested in reading at least a bit of it for themselves.
That is excellent. The random opening method. I'll have to try that.
ReplyDeleteI want to share something, but first I want to thank Citizen Warrior for an article that enlightened me about this.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend that has been really receptive about what I have told him about Islam as a result of my studies, in fact he has went on to tell at least three others some of the things I have told him and he states he wished more people knew about the dangers of Islam. But there is one drawback. His fiancée suffers from panic attacks and has one almost every time we talk about Islam.
I understand her feelings because I was there (in that feeling of helplessness and hopelessness) not long ago. This is what she told me,, she said.. "I don't like talking about this because I am 46 and finally have the man in my dreams and I don't want to lose him". She said this the day after I told my friend that if it ever came to all out war, we could not depend on the younger generation to fight for us and older guys like us would have to do the job.
I had am epiphany while reading an article about racism over at CW that stated that talking about Islam is not racist because Islam is not a race and in fact talking about it now could actually avoid racist actions in the event of a major terrorist attack that could result in Muslims and Arabs in general to be sent to internment camps. Then the implications of my friends comment (and other peoples attitudes, including mine until recently) hit me like a 2 ton heavy thing. In essence she (and many others) has surrendered and given her future husband over to possible death. She, and others, have basically said,, “this scares me too much to face, much less do anything about it - so let it be what will be“. So she has basically surrendered herself and her future husband without even fighting.
I told my male friend that while I understand her feelings, that so many people feel the same way scares me more than a Muslim with a sword or Iran with a Nuke. I know that not everyone here believes in God, but if you do, please pray that through study and trying to approach this delicately that I can convince my female friend of the ramifications of her, and so many others, attitude. Please pray that God will touch her heart and will help me help her.
Thanks again to CW, I will be spending much time at your wonderful site.
damon
CW SAID: What makes movies like Lord of the Rings epic is, I think, its universal message: That the forces of darkness are always gathering and that people of good heart and good intentions are always fighting to keep the good side winning.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can tell, it will never stop, so we might as well hunker down and enjoy the fight. And I really do think there is something to ENJOY about this fight. I love the feeling of meaningfulness and purposefulness this work bestows upon its warriors.
I SAY: Thanks for saying this. I feel the same way. I was in terrible depression until I figured out I could fight this thing. And it has empowered me and made me feel much better to get involved, to learn and to educate those around me. I’m not someone who had no purpose before all this. I am a Christian with members of four Christian Cult groups in my family (Mormons, oneness Pentecostals etc), so I have dedicated myself to preserving the orthodox Christian Faith and fighting against heterodox doctrines for the last 10 years. But I find this work more fulfilling. I too feel that in a small way I am fighting to save the free world. I guess I am a warrior too and it makes me proud. Thanks for helping make figure that out.
I started to feel better when I seen so many others fighting the good fight, but I did not feel like myself again until I figured out that myself, one man, can make a big difference. And like you said, my friends are really proud of me too.
Thanks for everything,
Private Damon :)
I appreciate that, Damon.
ReplyDeleteI hope you will pass something onto your friend's fiancée. Tell her to read the book, "When Panic Attacks" by David Burns. Or listen to the audiobook. It will change her life. And she will no longer have panic attacks when you talk about Islam.
I also believe that those who don't want to confront this subject will grow up. Or at least many of them will. They have been poorly educated about the real world, and they just want to be happy, they want to feel good, they want to accept everyone, and they want everyone to just get along.
Wouldn't we all?
But those of us willing to confront this subject have discovered, often through painful experience, that there are ugly facts in this world that will not go away by thinking positive. I believe it is the process of growing up. Sometimes it takes awhile. But in the meantime, we can plant the seeds in their minds. We can plant facts. And later, when their mind has matured a little more, those seeds will provide the openings to new understandings about the world. With those people, that may be the best we can do.
MAY be the best we can do. Hopefully, our growing skills at matching their physiology and speaking to their representational system and thinking outside the persuasion box will allow us to breakthrough to people who are otherwise unreachable.
Ideally, as this conversation grows between us non-Muslims, we will begin to share with each other and someone will come along who has gotten through to one of these people who didn't want to face up to the horror, and that will help us all when we deal with such a person. And slowly, one by one, all the most difficult kinds of people to reach will have a solution right here, and we will win.
Many of us have felt demoralized before. Depressed, disheartened, discouraged. In fact, that was all I focused on in the beginning. That's my strongest area of expertise. If you, or anyone reading this, ever feels depressed or demoralized, please do the exercise here:
ReplyDeleteMorale for the Citizen Warrior
Demoralization occurs when you feel you either have no purpose or that your purpose is impossible. Usually you are mistaken. The exercise will help you find out if you are mistaken or not.
I have generally had the most success with using articles in the news, and mentioning things casually...one great example was when a Muslim lady was sentenced to 6 months jail for falsely accusing a Policeman of forcibly removing her veil. I agreed that it was terrible that she had been sentenced and explained that "Man made laws" are not recognised by Muslims, so really, she had done nothing wrong in perjuring herself and making a false complaint...the people I was speaking to couldn't believe what I was saying, and it gave me the ideal opportunity to explain Sharia Law to them - something that they had no knowledge of before.
ReplyDeleteThe right to wear a burqua has been another situation - citing the above case again, the woman claimed that it was impossible for the policeman to prove it was her as she had only her eyes showing, and so she should not have been in court. Again, I agreed that in fact, we should all be able to wear a balaclava to enter a bank, shopping centre, govt office - the Govt has no right to make me recognisable in any instance. The people I was speaking to suddenly began arguing against MY rights to do that, and I was able to speak about other concessions to Islam that have been recently made - again, things that they had not thought "important" were suddenly placed in a context where they became VERY important.
Hopefully, other instances will come up, and I can keep getting the message out there, slowly and gracefully.
Keep up the good work Citizen warrior!
That's really good. I'd like to publish your post as an article on Citizen Warrior. What do you think of that?
ReplyDeleteNo worries at all
ReplyDeleteUser name is Western Feminista - can't get my type account to work lol :)
For decades, the US won’t let foreign scientists and medical professionals with HIV to enter this country and denied green cards to those already here who had acquired HIV while working in the hospitals in this country on the ground that it would pose a health risk to Americans, but yet they let muslims from violent Islamic countries to come here, get on welfare and become citizens, such as the latest 19 year old islamic somalian "naturalized" US citizen trying to ignite a bomb in Portland, not to mention the Time Square jihadist.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard of foreigners with HIV intentionally infected Americans with the intent to kill? None. And how many times have you heard about naturalized muslim citizens trying hard to blow up a car bomb or public structures to cause massive bloodsheds?
Ok, the excuse is: not all muslims are terrorists. But, not all HIV foreigners are out there trying to infect Americans with the disease, either. In fact, not one incident ever occurred to justify the US policy against foreigners with HIV.
Yet, it’s ok to discriminate a group of people simply because they had acquired a disease and had their lives destroyed, and it’s not ok to discriminate against another group with proven time and again the psychotic intent based on a psychotic “religious belief” to kill infidels among its devout adherents.
Americans should talk about this diaparity whenever liberals scream at the top of the lung that we are bigoted to discriminate a whole group of people based on their belief.
Americans should also ask congress to declare "islam" as a psychotic cult that is a mental health threat to people who call themselves muslims and a life threat to infidels.
The wahabbis and other Islamic fundamentalists use their God(Allah) in this religious war. I believe we should use the belief of a god to counter them since military force doesn't change a person's ideology.I suggest the UN sponsor a dialogue between leaders of the major religions and the first question to be answered is, Can anyone prove empirically that there is a god? When all agree that the answer is no at this time they should agree that a disclaimer to that fact will be used in all religious talks and teachings.
ReplyDeleteThe idea is that certitude of a god will not be embedded in the minds of people, especially neophytes, and thus belief will not take prcedence over reason. Thus it will less lessen the chance of people killing themselves and others in the belief they will go to a heaven they do not know exists. Succintly, this can be expressed by saying, "They Don't Know They Don't Know."
Steve Borkowski, Fl
I want to say that I really appreciate your website, not just for it's great info in educating people about islam, but also in that it gives practical suggestions as to how to apply this knowledge. I also believe that mass education of non-muslims as to the true tenants and motivations of islam, is one of the main keys to saving our western civilization. The education needs to become so broad that it is common knowledge everywhere (newspapers, schools, politics, billboards, liberals). Then we have a chance to stop the enablers, namely 'us'. When we stop the enablers we can then begin to stop 'them'. Again, by mass education and shining the huge spotlight on islam's idealogy, it's gruesome history, it's gruesome founder, and gruesome present. In the light of truth people will leave the 'religion' in droves and join the human race. I want to help in this cause and wish, truly wish, to witness this happening. Thanks again for your contributions in shining this light on the truth of islam.
ReplyDeleteHi CW and everyone else, I've got really good news. Me and my friends fiance finally had our talk about talking about Islam. I stayed at their house for a few days to help my friend build some furniture while he helped me talk through the details of a new site I am developing. I'm still over at their house and will give a report when I get home because it was a learning experience for me and I am sure others can learn from it.
ReplyDeleteBE BLESSED YA"LL
damon
I need help, CW. Recently I posted a comment on pbs.org in response to a segment about an Islamic school in Buffalo, NY. The segment aired on their Religion & Ethics program (last Sunday at 5:30PM). Please take a look at my post. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/december-10-2010/islamic-school/7629/
ReplyDeleteI was listed as Susan, December 12, 2010 6:08 PM. The post got a lot of hostile replies. The students (I think they were the students in the Islamic school) wanted me to quote the verses in the Quran that call for the killing of Christians and Jews. I replied as best I could, quoting from the Quran and the Hadith. pbs has not yet printed my reply. Since I am new at this, I would appreciate it if CW also posted a comment on the site. Can you do this? I know I can learn something from you. Thank you.
Looking forward to it, Damon!
ReplyDeleteI don't have time to post anything or get in conversation on PBS at the moment. I am buried in "day job" activities. But I suggest you copy and paste this whole post (including links):
ReplyDeletehttp://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/what-non-muslims-dont-like-about-islam.html
And then forget about it. You're not going to convince a Muslim. But you can put some good information on there for curious people who come along.
Let's focus on the undecided: http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/11/focus-on-undecided.html
I am a 80-yo Chinese Buddhist. Muslims in China are friendly and hospitable. The riots that took place in Tibet and Xinjiang were said to have been instigated by CIA in an effort to drive a wedge into Chinese ethnic groups as a part of long-standing US policy of containment of China. I have been taught by my master that all religeons lead to the same goal in life that boils down to:
ReplyDeleteDO ALL GOOD DO NO EVIL
I fail to understand why Muslims in China are so different from Muslims in other countries. For the I will study and find the answers
China is pretty good at suppressing any political opposition. When Muslims have no ability to be political, they can be very congenial people.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, many Muslims all over the world know so little about their own religion that they don't know according to their own basic doctrine, they are supposed to fight to establish political hegemony over all other polities and all other religions. Because they don't know much about their doctrine, they can be and often are wonderful people.
But your master was wrong: Not all religions have the same goal. Read the Quran and find out for yourself. The primary goals of Islam have to do with politics and domination. That is emphatically NOT true of most other religions.
Here comes the 90-yo Chinese Buddhist again !
ReplyDeleteIn fact, my master did read the Quran to us, but it is a Chinese translation of an ancient version in
literary Chinese instead of vernacular. I'm interested in finding an English version/translation to read for myself. Could you please let me know where I can download from internet or simply any online reading version of the complete Quran.
Thank you for your response!
Reading passages out of the Koran is not the same as reading the Koran in chronological order, for several reasons:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/quran-is-written-in-code.html
There are many online versions of the Koran:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/read-quran-online.html
But I recommend reading CSPI's "A Simple Koran."
Dear CW :
ReplyDeleteSorry for a typo in last post. With one passing year I have made a giant stride from 80-yo to 90!!
Thank you so much for your taking the time and trouble in recommending some sites for me to go.
I shall come back as I, as a Buddhist, begin my new journey of reading/studying a scripture outside of my own faith. I'm determinded to find the truth since the Mosgue in Chinese means:
Qing Zhen Temple
Qing----Purity
Zhen----Truthfulness
I pray my Buddha to grant me the wisdom to find the truth!!
Hi CW
ReplyDeleteWestern Feminista here again...I just thought I'd let you guys know of another success I had the other day.
I was asked in an exasperated voice, "For G*d's sake, What is your problem with Islam?" by a friend who up until now has been very closed-minded on the subject...she works in Community Services, so is very into equality and justice for all. (I actually tell her she's a bleeding-heart fuzzy wuzzy, but that's another story...)
I replied that I could not condone an ideology that violates at least 8 articles of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. This piqued her interest (obviously) and I was able to explain:
Article 1 - Women are given a lesser status to men in all areas of life. (Examples given of honour killings/burqua wearing/wife beating)
Article 2 - Islam discriminates against others in the way of race, colour, gender, sexual orientation, religion, political and other opinions. (Examples given of death sentence for homosexuality etc)
Article 5 - Islam mandates inhuman and degrading punishments. (Sharia Law examples)
Article 18 - Islam denies freedom of thought, conscience and religion and the right to change religion. (Explanation of Apostasy)
Article 19 - Islam denies freedom of opinion and expression, to seek and impart information freely. (Blasphemy Laws explained, examples of Mo-toon, people arrested for blogging in Islamic countries etc)
Article 23(1) - Islam denies the right to free choice of work (especially females) (Explanation of Halal/Haaram jobs, women not allowed to work if they mix with men etc)
Article 26 (1) - Islam denies the right to education (again, mainly for females). (examples of girls schools being targeted in Pakistan etc.)
Finally, because of the fact that the UN Declaration of Human Rights was involved - she listened - she actually, really listened! She was able to relate to what I was saying, as it suddenly correlated to something she cared about - fair treatment for all people! Yay!
I have always copped the "bigot" card from her, but she finally admitted that she understood now why I felt the way I did, and she'd like to know more...
I have given her the link to this site, so hopefully she's cruising around reading now, as we speak!
Cheers
Western Feminista
Well done, Western Feminista! You're an inspiration.
ReplyDeleteI had a good conversation with a friend today. Last night on MSN he commented on my display name, which was borrowed from one of the articles on this site, 'the only balanced muslim is one with a chip on both shoulders'. He approached me with some hostility, and I tried, but I think failed initially in retrospect, to tell him about my position and why I thought that was worth sharing and not 'racist'.
ReplyDeleteAt first he stonewalled, and ended the conversation abruptly and coldly, leaving me to stew all day at work. When I got home I had decided to try again, and typed a more well thought out re-introduction of the topic, only saying WHY I felt hostility and mockery were deserved by Islam, and when he began to reply, he said he had mostly been put off by the generalization of 'Muslims', but we ended up speaking further and getting much further; I would say he was on board the whole time though maybe a touch apathetic, but initially put off by the criticism against what he sensed to be a broader people than maybe deserved the criticism, which I can understand. I told him I understood that he would be put off by that, and offered to talk with him more on occasions, and he agreed it would be good, so at least I might be able to show him more of what i've learned and get him a little more active in the counter-jihad, as he is artistic and tech savvy and could probably contribute with motivation.
Well done, Jason. That was a good example.
ReplyDeleteI was just reading up on stoning, and have come upon a good visual image to send - I wonder if we couldn't have peaceful protests of such a nature that emulate the practice of stoning with a group of volunteers tying someone, burying them, and pelting them with objects of the rough sized actually used today, of course made of something harmless. I feel personally that among the most potent images from the hell that is Islam, stoning and the people hanging from the road signs, and the beheadings are the most vivid, so perhaps if this was done during times of high political interest, in visible, attention getting ways, even relating to the particular flavor of the month - 'stoning' someone on an occasion where same sex marriage, or adultery, or similar crimes are in the public eye here, a reminder of how Islam will deal with these things if they get comfortable here.
ReplyDeleteA reader from Brazil has often written to me, and he has a great attitude. I asked him to tell me how he thinks about this conflict with Islamic ideology, and how he keeps up his spirits, even though he is an energetic activist. And I asked if I could post his answer here. He gave me his permission. Here is what he said:
ReplyDeleteAbout the strategy in our fight: I totally agree with your wise, balanced advice on a serene approach which learns to recognize the other side's view and our own flaws, etc.
I just would like to add that, by always using the adjective "political" while referring to Islam (as you have already used ) or Fundamentalist Islam, inserting it in the realm of other Fundamentalisms, helps a lot to avoid the usual charges of specific discrimination against it. But this I see you have already been doing all the time, lol! I have to adopt this strategy anyway here in Brazil, in my education blog of English for Portuguese speakers, since in this country there is not the same freedom of speech as in the US (in spite of this, the Brazilian Defense League on Facebook has been quite daring; they do not spare adjectives in denouncing Islam, lol).
I don't know about the others, but with me it works thinking that, instead of getting downcast by the burden of the awareness of this danger, we should be happy that now we have the internet as a great means to do what we can to stand up against this creeping horror, so we can all pitch in! Each one is a precious part of this huge worldwide web of activists! So, we are indeed part of the warriors of Freedom and this SHOULD FEEL GOOD.
Let's look at it as children would while fancying a magic world, as in sci fi movies (I'm a fan of those ): this is Star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back, guys.
Jiddu Krishnamurti would often say, "This world is a madhouse anyway" and it is, so let's add humor as the powerful tool that it is, plus some fantasy-feeling to face such depressing stuff as Islam! Oxytocin, as you said it! Let's get ready for the Siths, lol!
Well, I'm a dreamer and I find reality just worse off than any horror movie, so why not make this wonderful power that is imagination work for us? The great eastern masters say so. After all, they materialize their inner hell they call paradise, while we struggle to shape our Shangri-las here on earth, with each dream we struggle for. Americans know this far better than I do. They have been state-of-the-art in making dreams coming true...(well, I include Canadians in this, lol).
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteAs I'm sure you know, Blogger sets a limit on how long a comment could be. So here is the rest of the comment by our activist from Brazil:
Also, remember the fact that this danger of Political Islam has always been there, lurking through history and smashing cultures for centuries, we just happen to have the web as a tool to get better filled in on what's going on around the world.
Moreoever, if we just limit ourselves to the self-centered style of living, feeling as if we were not affected by the serious issues which actually relate to us all (even when they happen far from us), our lives are lived in the shallow surface, lose the meaning of the whole, of making a difference. And we have raised above the ordinary when we woke up to this struggle for free, secular societies.
For those who have no faith, I suggest free thinkers like Jiddu Krishnamurti, the Hindu boy brought up by Theosophists who went his own way into a free thinker. For those who are looking for some New Age or other alternative forms of spirituality to resort to I suggest many new strands like Asanaro's Mullarghan School of Boabom Arts or Eckankar, this one has has been in the West for some decades earlier. Master Asanaro has delicious yoga-like exercises, very much like Taoist Chi Kung. I'm a Taoist myself and all I can say is one can Google and find so many good masters and centers for our yogas (Chinese Chi Kung / Qi Gong and Korean Kok Sun Do and Danhak) that I dare not just mention one and leave out the many good other ones. Youtube also has nice videos on that.
Maybe we are witnessing such great changes in the world that we may have to reorganize ourselves in different ways in the not-so-distant future, as people show who they really are in these countries.
What lies ahead may ask us to realign in such depth that societies themselves may undergo radical changes, as oil does not mix with water...
So, it's not up to us to predict the future nor suffer in advance for the outcome, but just do our share of activism and live our own lives with even more sense of a clear conscience!
In addition to the scourge of islam, we must also contend with its useful idiots, self-hating left-wingers, islamic apologists, appeasers, moral/cultural/religious relativists, multiculturalists, and politically correct revisionists of history. It's maddening because you don't know where to begin since so many issues related to islam and muslims overlap with political issues and the current bizarre political climate in America, political correctness and institutionalized multiculturalism leading the charge. Identity politics and the media obsession with white oppression of 'minorities' add to the confusion. People should understand, and many do not, that whites comprise less than ten percent of the global population. Caucasians are hardly the bully majority race that exists to exploit and abuse poor, ignorant 'minorities'. But that is the perception held by most people! There are so many misconceptions and so much agitprop disseminated by academia, the corrupt media, the public school systems, politicians, and the intelligentsia to be refuted or debunked because if they are not, sympathy and support for islam and muslims will continue. When the whole mess is conflated, you suddenly have what could be easily construed as a wild conspiracy theory. Where do you start? Middle Eastern Cultures and History was my college major and even after grad school, I continued to study islam and all things related. I do not focus on the minutiae of islamic religious doctrine; it is irrelevant. I focus on the inhumane, the most outrageous (by Western standards), the archaic, barbaric, and vile, and this is more than enough to make a grown man cry, so hideous it is literally unbelievable to most civilized people. Perhaps this is the wrong approach but I always encourage people to read the qur'an and do the research for themselves and I suggest websites, including this one. I suppose I'm hoping that the 'shock' factor will inspire independent research in an attempt to prove me wrong, if nothing else. Educating the ignorant about islam is a thankless and daunting task, but we must try. When I get tired, frustrated, and depressed, I leave it alone for a few days and pursue immoral recreational activities, for which I shall burn in Hell.
ReplyDeleteThe attempt to prove you wrong might be the best thing that could happen. I've heard from many people who say the reason they originally got interested in learning about Islam is they were trying to prove someone wrong about Islam. But then when they actually looked into it, they came to the terrifying realization that the person was right!
ReplyDeleteEducating the ignorant about Islam is a LARGELY thankless and daunting task. THANK YOU for keeping at it. There are many of us who, if we knew what you were doing, would also thank you.
The 81-yo Chinese Buddhist is back after 10 days of concentrated and attentive reading of various articles and the Quran. I have gone one step further by cross-checking the Quran's English translation against three versions of Chinese trnaslation with a shocking finding that the Chinese translation finessed all the violent verses in the English version. Thus,abrogation is not needed as omission and deletion take the place.
ReplyDeleteAnother finding is that Islam in China has long been indigenized and sinicised. Muslims since childhood receive same traditional education as all others do. It may interest you to know that in China, in order to qualify for an Imam, one has to be a party member first. This clearly shows that Muslims have to be controlled. I have come to realize that Muslims in the Western countries are taking the advantage of Western democracy and thus are abusing the freedoms granted by their respective hose countries. This is the culprit!
All told, I must say that my master was wrong !
Islam is not a religion of peace!!
Thank you so much for your guidance!
That is interesting. Very interesting.
ReplyDeleteA woman wrote to me because a dear friend of hers, a long-time friend, didn't like her talking about Islam. Her friend thought she was being "taken in" by "propaganda about Muslims."
ReplyDeleteWhen I originally wrote her back, I asked, "Did you once feel the same way about this issue? If so, that might be a good place to start. What made you change your mind?" I thought her answer was good and I asked her if I could publish it here. She said yes. This is her answer:
No, I really didn’t feel that jihad/Islam was just propaganda, I just didn’t know or pay any attention to it. My income is limited so didn’t subscribe to any major media. As you know, there has been very little honest info about Islam on broadcast news TV stations. Several years ago one of my grandsons showed me the movie “Fitna” by Geert Wilders and asked me what I thought about it. I sat up and took notice. Exploring the Internet finally brought me to Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs among others. I’m not sure how I found CW; maybe a comment with your URL?
Other than writing letters, I don’t know what to do. I write to my representatives in congress, and get back PR blather. On rare occasion a letter to the editor of our local newspaper will get printed. I don’t have the money to contribute to the websites as I would like, or buy the DVDs & books recommended. I’d like to buy dozens of the condensed simple Korans and mail them to everyone I know. I have a feeling they’d all land in the trash. Too many of my Jewish friends are actually anti-Israel, and try to tell me I’m way off base.
It took me several years to get my daughter to watch the video, “3 Things About Islam You Should Know.” About a month ago, I had her in my apt, and asked her to watch a video with me and she agreed. Afterwards, her reactions were, “Wow, why haven’t you shown me this before?” I pointed out to her that I had sent her the URL at least 6 times in the last 6 months, with an explanation, and she hadn’t bothered. Her response was, “Well, I guess a person just has to be receptive.”
We don’t have a synagogue in our area, but we do have a small Jewish community, of which I am not a member. This past year they hired a Rabbi, who is doing his best to convince the whole county that all we need to do is, “love each other.” I’ve talked to him on the phone about jihad here and in Israel, and he stated, “it's Israel’s fault there isn’t peace.” I was so depressed when he said that, I just hung up.
I have dear friend of 29 years, we worked together 15 years in social services, and tears run down her face when I tell her of the evils of Islam, “Where,” she says, “is the wonderful, loving woman I have known all these years?” I reply, “There is no love in Islam, only hate.” She claims she has read the Koran but doesn’t believe the later passages abrogate the earlier passages. Then we both cry, she because she believes I have started hating people, when I only hate the ideology they practice. I cry from frustration because I can’t get through to her.
Well, this has been a long answer to your questions. I wish you all the best and will continue to read and refer people to Citizen Warrior.
A man emailed me this message:
ReplyDeleteHey, I've been subscribed to you for over a year now and I very much enjoy reading all of your articles, the simple notion of knowing there is somebody out there like-minded who has all the right ideas. And furthermore, isn't afraid to express them. It's not RACISM, its not ISLAMAPHOBIA, it's just fact and is happening all around us, and people can't seem to accept that. I have no problem mailing on websites, watching videos and expressing my voice in ways that don't involve the PHYSICAL real world, and I very much enjoy my research as it's interesting. However, the harsh fact is no matter how good you are at connection with people, your relationship with them, or how much you read, you CANNOT get through to them. The simplest way I can put this, and we all know it in one way or anther, is the system and media are too wound up, too hyped up and too many people have been fooled into placing their own heads up their own jacksides to where they live and think in a way where that IS their freedom so their jaws drop at the word "Islam," and that alone, as they are too narrow-minded to consider the conversation before they began evesdropping. Then their mindless routine starts where they accuse you of being a "racist" when they clearly have no concept of the idea and probably feel nothing in saying it apart from the self-preservation of thinking they're being right in saying it, wanting to lick up to others as not to be seen as "racist" themselves.
I could write about this, that, and the other on Islamic radicalism and its affects all day long, but not to stray away from the agenda of this e-mail I have to ask you a simple yet complicated question. That is: How do you get through to people???
You answer this in your blogs, and in so much detail, with such dedication, that I've got to say bravo. Yet despite all of the book references, videos, tips and advice, people do not want to know about the problem of Islam and what they can do to prevent it even if their life depended on it. No matter what situation, in what context and despite your best persuasive efforts, people shut down. They say no, no, no and just ignore what they don't want to hear.
What I'm saying here isn't even a definitive question, but it's highlighting the problem we all know too well and face too much. So here is the question, take two, "Could you dedicate a section of your blog etc. (whatever your preference may be) that goes through everything one can do to help the effort?" Suggesting they know all they could ever know, it's kind of been a deadpoint to me and many more I'm sure, as I have all the passion, knowledge, and dedication I could have. Yet as I've repeated too many times, one simply fails to get through to people. So back to the question, it'd be absolutely terrific if you could create a post on all one can do. If not, then stepping stones. I'm talking about how to talk to people, books, websites, communities etc.
Basically an accumulation of things you've already written as your articles are outstanding. It's just when I hit that brick wall with people all the time, and feel too much frustration, there is nowhere to turn to to prevent that from happening again, and hone my persuasive skills apart from reading more articles and watching more videos to assure myself I'm not alone. Deep down I even know I'm writing this to communicate to someone like-minded as I am. The majority out there who hate you for your views are the actual racists, people who, as you know, only work with the fundamentalists in their efforts and do no good for us honest people who genuinely care for our freedom, our security, and our families' welfare.
Thank you for taking the time to read my rather boring essay. I got enjoyably carried away with it, haha, I hope to read many more of your articles in the future. Thanks again.
Me again, the 81-yo Chinese Buddhist. There's something baffling me. Please enlighten me.
ReplyDeleteOn one occasion,I have,for the first time,laid my eyes on US currency, a 20$ bill and a 25 cents coin. I was surprised to find an inscription or engraving, which reads "In God We Trust". Why?
Another finding was that in taking an oath, such as before the court or taking a new office, and even for immigrants, one has to take an oath by holding a Bible with one's left hand. Again why a Bible?
Do you think that the day will come when all these have to change from "In God We Trust" to "In Allah We Trust ", would this change make the hard US currency harder as the currency would be oil-based?
In a country where God is not recognized, it's hard to understand.
Please shed some light on these, thank you!
Hello 81-yo Chinese Buddhist,
ReplyDeleteMost of the people in the United States believe in God. The founders of the nation wanted government to be separated from religion so that a particular religion could not dominate the machinery of politics. So while God is not officially recognized by most aspects of the government, the majority belief still manifests itself in many ways.
I don't know when "In God We Trust" was added to our currency, but I know that during the Cold War between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., something was added to the Pledge of Allegience: "under God." It wasn't in the Pledge before. But to distinguish and make plain the difference between an athiest creed like Communism and the "freedom-loving, God-fearing" creed of Americans, "under God" was added.
I got accused of wanting to kill all Muslims a couple of days ago. All 1.2 - 1.5 billion of them. That's the most hurtful damn thing I have ever had said to me. How could someone think I am such a monster?
ReplyDeleteHave ya'll had this happen to ya'll yet? I just don't know how to make the pain from this stop. It comes and goes and has not completely went away yet. Do you think it will dissipate after some time?
I know I'm gonna end up losing my friend of over 30 years because of his fiance that did this to me. And he is the only one I have to really count on. I ain't got no family.
I guess in all reality, because of the way she is, she would have been the end of our friendship anyway, even if i was not doing counter-jihad work. So i don't know why I'm surprised, shocked or hurt. I guess its just time to move on down the road, maybe move to another town or something.
***Any of ya'll been accused of wanting to kill all Muslims?***
Hi Damon,
ReplyDeleteI have not been directly accused of that, but people have said to me that the only solution THEY can think of is to kill them all! Or go to war with "Islam." But for many people, who have never thought about this before, and who know nothing about it, that is somewhat understandable. Islam sounds SO terrible and so threatening, and the danger seems so impending, killing them all might seem like the only solution if you've never given it any thought.
I don't think you have to lose your friend. I think you can let things cool off. Temporarily stop talking about Islam with your friend or his fiance. Maybe in six months or so, you can bring it up again, and maybe in the intervening time you can think about different possible ways to bring it up, and by then you'll have a really good approach.
I know this is a really compelling topic, but there ARE many other interesting things to talk to your friend about.
;-)
Hi CW,,This is Damon.
ReplyDeleteThanks for everything. I even recorded a 15 minute audio message to post to one of my sites for you to listen to, using podcasting - but I could not get it to work. I was just feeling bad and venting. Glad I could not get it to work.
There is more going on with my friend than me talking about Islam. She thinks arguing or debating is a form of violence and she is the worst passive aggressive I have ever seen.
I have not talked about Islam with them for weeks and did not do so when she said that about me. I went to mardi-gra about 10 years ago and I bought a bunch of cocky shirts, like one that says "buy me another beer cause your still ugly",,stuff like that.
I messed up and let her see me in my shirt that says,,"some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them". It is not about killing people at all, rather that the way some people are it is a wonder someone has not killed them. Everyone else loves the shirt and people always say "I know a few of those type people too" and then they offer to buy me a beer.
I'll be honest with you and tell you I am not so pleased with many of my Christian brothers and sisters because some of them are so self righteous they act they are Jesus himself,,, but I never had anyone look at me with such disgust all over their face. Or accuse me of wanting to kill anyone,,much less over a billion.
I hope I don't have to lose my friend but if I have to that is the price I am willing to pay because I love my freedom and country.
OH WELL,,, hey I'll send you an email with a link to the new super site I am building to get a preview.
Thanks for your help CW. By The Way, when I am talking to CW, am I sometimes talking to Mrs. CW and sometimes Mr. CW? :):):)
Okay, Damon. I'm looking forward to it.
ReplyDeleteYou're talking to Mr. CW. Her participation is mostly advisory — talking to me about articles, comments, and emails — although she occasionally writes articles. And she has come up with some of the best ideas for CW. Even the idea of the site itself was hers.
I think The Pledge was one of her best ideas. It hasn't caught on in a big way yet, but we're asking people to read something that is very hard to read. I am now in the process of reading the Koran for the second time, start to finish, and it is a painful, ugly, dark, miserable, repetitive, often childish piece of writing. It is difficult to slog through, and I love to read normally. Still, 167 people so far have pledged to read it. I salute them.
from damon:
ReplyDeleteHi CW, I hate to turn this site into a support group and you into my personal councilor but I need to get your opinion.
I had another incident with my friend and his fiancé. I took my laptop over to their house when I visited and was reading my emails when I received an article that said that a Texas school backed off mandatory Arabic classes for all students. I said, "hey great news a Texas school, backed off mandatory Arabic classes for all students". My friend said that he did not want to hear about Islam today.
Later when his fiancé was not around I asked him if he was getting tired of hearing about Islam or if he was just trying to keep me from talking about it becauser of his fiance‘s sensitivities. He said that he just did not want to hear about it today, still wanted to learn about it but that I always seem to segway into discussion about Islam. When I disagreed he said that maybe 3 out of 100 conversations I do not eventually segway into Islam. I said,, come on man,,, that is a way over-bloated estimation. And of course he disagreed.
Then later I was trying to explain to his fiancé how to use audio-emails because she talks on yahoo IM with her family for hours often in Florida and I thought it might help them communicate better. I said,, "say for instance I send you an audio email, you can listen to it at your convenience and then I can counter respond at my convenience and it is a big time saver". She said,,, "would that message be about Muslims". I said NO, it is just an example of how audio-emails have helped me communicate with people far away and might help you.
So later when me and my friend was alone I asked if he thought I talked about Islam enough to justify her assumption that I was going to send her an email about Muslims (which I don’t ever do). He said yes,, so I went on to ask him,, well "you said the other day that when she said I wanted to kill every Muslim on the face of the earth (which to me equals I am a monster and was very hurt by that) that she did not mean that I wanted to kill every Muslim, but what else could she have meant and besides,, I talk about Islam,, not Muslims". He could not say a thing in response. he just froze up.
On new years eve I had my friends sister and fiancé attack me while they where claiming I was attacking them, but I was not slinging words around like bigot and racist. His fiancé even called him a racist twice for talking about Islam. And since then the fiancé and sister have been hanging out allot so I asked my friend what he thought the possibility was that they did not do some bad talking about me when they are together. He admitted that they do it all the time and they even drag him into it and he so so defends me.
continued:
ReplyDeleteBack to the other days events,, they then showed me a picture that had two pigs saying ‘wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was a jew”. I said well,, Jews are not only ones who think pigs are unclean and then caught myself just before I started to say,, the Muslims are like that too. I got enough of it out for my friend to say,, see what I mean.
When I got home I sent him a text that said,,, “think about this, how many conversations or micro convos did we have before I almost segwayed,, like I said,, over bloated estimation”.
Now here is my thing,,, do they really expect me to see a picture that is negative and defamatory to Jews without putting the things into proper perspective?
Me and my friend are going to a concert alone Friday night and I am thinking about just telling him how I feel. I feel that he hears so many times that I am a hater, racist and bigot that he is starting to believe it on a sub-conscience level. We been really good friends for 30 years, I’ve literally saved his life and he has in turn helped me which might have saved mine.
When they first met his fiancé tried to get me to move in with her (as a trick to get him) to move in with her also. And when I got screwed real hard recently, they put me up for about three weeks but by the time I left, I felt like they was really relieved. It seems like he forgets all those times I let him live with me and once he was in a massive depression after his divorce and ended up owing me 5 thousand dollars because he did not go back to work as soon as he could have because I was making good money and paying all the bills. I’ve never brought this up to him because my mother has never done anything for me she did not hold over my head and I don’t want to be like her. But it kinda hurts that because of her, he would not even come close to returning the favor on that level.
So I am thinking about while we are alone Friday to try to convince him that just like Hitler said,,, if you tell a lie often enough and big enough, it will eventually be believed. And if he cannot be convinced, just tell him straight forward that I love him with all my heart but If I have to lose his friendship because I cannot speak truth when I see falsehood,,, then I will be forced to go my own way and hope to see him after she gets through with him.
Do you or anyone else here have any comments, estimations or suggestions about this for me.
THANKS ALLOT YA’LL!
I just recently wrote an article entitled, How to Stay Relaxed and Feeling Good While Talking About Islam, and I said:
ReplyDeleteI have convinced myself that I am on "the leading edge" and that eventually it will become common knowledge that the doctrines of Islam are not peaceful but intolerant, politically domineering, and violent. Over the last nine years of writing this blog, I have seen good evidence that my assumption is true: More and more non-Muslims are waking up to the truth about Islam.
Since that's the case, any particular individual I'm talking to doesn't really matter in the long run. If they believe me, I have gained one more recruit to our side. If they don't believe me at the moment, they will eventually learn the truth, and they'll remember I'm the one who said it first. I know this is a little silly, but this perspective works for me. It helps me not have any anxiety about whether they are convinced or not. This helps prevent me from getting upset, and makes me more persuasive.
A blogger going by the name Dar Alharb wrote:
It isn't silly at all. I have done it for years -- though in another venue.
I recently had an Aussie say to me "I wish I had listened to you years ago". In many cases my methodology runs to showing the skeptic where to look, saying "don't take my word for it, look it up".
If they do and get back to me, then they are one who wants to know and I will help them to the extent I can. There are other cases — such as some who follow along and or on board and then when they start to see how ugly islam really is can't handle it and fall back into the "religion of peace" thing as a defense mechanism.
He also sent me this, which I thought was pretty interesting:
Koran -- caliph uthman and one of the most believed in and most seldom read books...
One technique I have found helpful is that when I post an article on my facebook page about a current event in the Muslim world, I relate it back to the Qur'an, hadith or the life of Muhammed. That way people understand that this is what Islam is all about, not just an aberrant, isolated event
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good idea... will also try that! Thanks!
DeleteThat's a great idea. That would help keep those who hope or wish the problem is not Islam itself from being able to put the information in a category in their minds of "news I don't have to worrry about."
ReplyDeleteOn the Citizen Warrior post, More on Using Scientology to Criticize Islam, Traeh wrote:
ReplyDeleteSeems like excellent advice you are giving. By focusing on two cults, rather than just on Islam, one takes a more objective, detached position. If one focuses only on Islam, that can seem like an irrational hating fixation. But if one focuses on two cults (or more), then the starting point is plural, comparative, and seems inherently detached, objective, knowledge-based. It demonstrates that knowledge is the driving force.
Whereas, if you focus on Islam only, it can be an up hill battle to convince people knowledge is what motivates you. Instead, the relentlessness of focus on one group can make it seem that one is trying to drum up a lynch mob, or like you are ringing an emergency bell. We can seem like a drum that never stops. People instinctively or unconsciously ask themselves, why is this drumbeat or emergency bell so relentless? Why can't these people let go even for a second? What will I be driven to if I join this too urgent crowd, or is it a mob? Is this some sort of frenzy? Where will it lead?
But if you shift your focus from one group to more than one, perhaps that sense of a frenzied monomania would be dissipated, and people would calm down and listen to some hard truths about Islam.
I wonder whether it would be good after Hubbard, to build up to including knowledge of other cult leaders in one's repertoire to explain Muhammad and Islam.
Ali Sina occasionally compares Muhammad to other famous cult leaders.
Someone emailed this comment:
ReplyDeleteI always like to approach the subject by telling about my hairstylist who converted and became a Muslim. I asked her how this came about and she responded that a Muslim knocked on her door one evening and thereafter he came by once per week for religious instructions. I asked her "so you are aware that Mohammed was a warrior and attacked the Mecan caravans." Her response was "why would he do that." Need I say more?
I gave her the book The Life and Religion of Mohammed by J. L. Menezes to read.
Hi CW, This is Damon.
ReplyDeleteSince I posted some heart wrenching stuff above I wanted to link off to my post where I came to some sort of resolution about my friends fiance.
Feeling the Bite and Sting of Multicultural Relativism and Islam by Damon Whitsell
http://religionofconquest.com/feeling-the-bite-and-sting-of-multicultural-relativism-and-islam-by-damon-whitsell/
Hi,
ReplyDeleteA while back, I wrote to you about how before sharia would come, a muslim state would happen. I would like to elaborate on this a bit.
The reason why I think that it is not entirely on target to focus so much on opposing sharia law is that certain aspects of sharia law are more likely to become entrenched (and therefor our culture changed) far, far, before full blown sharia will happen. By the time sharia law is in place (as an actual law), the country would be already almost entirely islamic. It's the 'sharia creep' that is the biggest and most immediate threat. The fact that free speech is under direct and constant attack by islamists is of utmost importance. That fact that one can be accused of hate speech for bringing to light what islamic texts themselves say, or what has taken place in islamic history, or, in the actual, historical life of Mohammed, is a huge threat. That mosques can house political sermons which teach that islamic law supersedes our laws is what needs to be addressed. The fact that one can be killed for leaving Islam needs to be addressed. The main point, is that muslims do not need sharia to be the law of the land for them to be practicing it in their daily lives- right here in our own countries. In a sense, it is their culture, so where ever they go, it will come with them. We need to go after islam itself, while at the same time, validate and strengthen our right to free speech . It is the islamic texts (koran, hadith, sira), that gave birth to everything presently practiced in sharia law. We could outlaw sharia law but it won't slow down muslims. Instead, what needs to be focused on, imo, is the texts of islam and the actions within mosques that violate the 'rico act' and the 'smith act'. This would actually be easy to do if we, as a society, had the commitment to do it. Mosques, who allow the preaching of these ideas, and muslims who believe these texts and put them into practice, are actually in violation of both of these acts. It could pave the way for designating islam as something other than a religion, or at the very least, separating political islam from religious islam, and further, making political islam (and those who practice it), illegal. Treason and sedition are serious crimes indeed. Please let me know what you think. I'm just brainstorming here. We need to figure this out together (All of us). We can and must do it!!
Take care,
Rob (aka Nagesh)
The principles of the religion of submission (Islam) must be challenged, so that the servants of that ideology (Muslims) can be freed. We in the West will then be safe.
ReplyDeleteSomeone emailed this comment:
ReplyDeleteI'd like to suggest a way to approach the problem of "engagement" with our friends and others. It is non-threatening and really helps to open a conversation. The "Socratic" approach is a simple leading to learning through questions. No position is taken, only asked about, just as Socrates did with his students thousands of years ago. For example, as an opener, I could ask: "What is the purpose of religion?" "What are the great religions, and what do they have in common?" "How does politics change the value of religion, whether coming from inside the religion or outside?" "What are some examples of that?" "If God is good and people, his creation are good, what role would evil have in religion?" "What is Evil?" "Based on what we've discussed so far, how can a 'religion' promote evil and still be identified as a religion?" And so on...There are infinite variations and when approached as a learning opportunity for both, it can yield exciting results.
These are all open-ended questions--meaning, they require the person responding to think about the question. These are not "yes" or "no" questions. The approach is completely non-confrontational because it is a path to learning. No one side or position is offered, but the questions are designed to lead to a Truth that the other person arrives at (and rightfully believes is of his or her own volition). That's the best kind of education.
Someone emailed this comment:
ReplyDeleteDear CW,
I think a lot about your emphasis on tactics and 'sales' pitches in convincing non-muslims about the threat of islam lately.
What I find helpfull to convince Islam-ignorants is to relate to their personal lives and interests.
For example, when talking with a dog-lover, I tell this person in a discussion about muslims disgust for dogs, 'mentioning several refusals by muslim cabdrivers in G-B, Canada, USA to allow seeing-eye dogs in their cabs!
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/11/muslim-taxi-drivers-vs-seeing-eye-dogs
When using those and simular examples to your audience, you do get 'rapport' with them.
So a practical minded person can become (more) Islamcritical by showing him/her the consequencws of over -tolerance or the stupidity of some Islamic demands on society.
A friend of mine e.g. finds muslim women with headscarfs in the gym utter madness — but he doesn't object headscarfs per se — so that makes him wonder if these developments are any good at all.
My advice: find out someone's hobby/interest etc., and approach your Islamcritism from there.
Hi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking lately about what we need to do to spread our message faster and more effectively. As many already know, this is mostly a war of propaganda. The islamists are doing a better job at it than us, partly because they've been at it for 1400 years. We must learn from them how to do propaganda. Some things that they do is that they 'educate' our news people by going in and giving presentations to them to sway their perspective to fit their agenda. They do the same with our police, educators, politicians at all levels, newspapers and magazines. These are the people who then educate the masses. My thinking is that WE need to undertake such a plan. We need a team of people who can go in to these places with a clear and hard hitting presentation so as to educate them to be on our side. Then we will begin to create friends in the media, etc, who would be reporting the truth and not the false lies of the islamic propagandists. We need to change the minds of those people so that instead of them being useful idiots supporting islam, they will be fighting on the right side. This is a big project that would need a very well thought out presentation that is then taught to enough people who could then carry it out and replicate it all over the country. This could lead to follow up seminars that would be longer and more in depth. I'm just brain storming here folks. What do you think?
Rob
Rob, I think that's brilliant. I nominate Bill Warner, Civilus Defendus, and Peter Friedman to be on that team!
ReplyDeleteCitizen, Glad you like it.
ReplyDeleteI just sent Bill Warner a copy of this. Peter is a friend of mine through Act for America-I have been to a few of his lectures. He would be a great resource. I'll speak with him. I'm not sure how to contact Civilus Defendus-he didn't have an email at his site. A number of people at 'Act' are intrigued by the idea. Hopefully, it can gain some traction because we need to begin to educate those who are in positions of influence-we need to educate the educators. 1st we need a presentation that is effective, then we need to teach a team of people who can present it, and then do it!
I've been thinking of ways of converting the 'near enemy', as Bill Warner calls them, to better understanding our horrible dilemma with islam. The near enemy is essentially anyone who is opposed to people who try to warn us about islam. Almost all of these people would be virulently opposed to most of what islam teaches and practices-if it were a convenient 'villain' like the tea party, for instance, who was doing these practices. I thought that it might be worth while to have a set of questions to ask people what they think of such practices as: discrimination based on religion, or race. What they think of movements that would kill someone who opposes what they believe, or leave the cult. Essentially questions that describe islam and sharia laws but without speaking about islam. In a way, it would be a way of entrapping a person into agreeing that what islam practices is what that person opposes. If done intelligently, I think that it could be an effective teaching tool to show people that the horrors of islam, that we all know about, is completely opposed to what they themselves actually believe in. Of course, you would eventually tell them that this is what islam practices/believes, etc. I would be curious to hear what some people think about this and what questions you think might be effective. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteRob
That's a good idea, Rob. Especially if you said "these are the teachings of Islam" rather than "this is what Muslims believe" because they will be quick to say people of any religion are not all the same, and they probably think you can find anything in any religious doctrine to justify anything.
ReplyDeleteBut I like the idea of asking the question first and getting their opinion first before they know it's about Islam.
Here's a possible question: Do you think it's okay for a government to favor one religion over another?
Hi Citizen Warrior,
ReplyDeleteThanks for responding. Of course, focusing on the texts of islam and actions/teachings of Muhammad needs to remain the focus in any discussion of islam, including this one. In addition, I believe it is important to, somehow, intelligently, transmit the truth to people that in order to be a muslim, as taught in the koran, hadith, and by Muhammad, one HAS to believe that the koran is the actual words of God and is 100% true, and further, that Muhammad is the perfect man who is to be emulated by all muslims for all time and that anyone who doesn't believe this would is considered an apostate.
I like your question. Would that be your lead in towards speaking about a lack of freedom of religion in muslim countries and how Sharia views and implements 'freedom of religion'?
A bit of a funny aside is that when my wife saw your question, she gave the answer that she does think that government SHOULD favor one religion over the other, in that the peaceful ones should be favored and the violent ones shut down. I don't think that is the answer you were looking for, however. :-)
Another possible question: Do you believe that women are intrinsically inferior to men and more prone to evil deeds? This is what Muhammad said.
Or how about this: Do you think it is ok to kill in the name of your religion/movement? When is it ok?
Here's another: If a person says that it is their religious duty to kill you, or to take over your country, is it ok to be opposed to him and his belief?
Here's another question: Do you believe it should be illegal to criticize a religion or political system?
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff. Here's another: should offending someone or some group be the criteria of if speech is considered 'hate speech'? What about if the offended ones might riot and/or kill when they are offended? Who should be held accountable when rioters riot because someone told the truth?
ReplyDeleteTHERE IS STRONG NEED TO PREPARE A INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATION OF NON-MUSLIMS TO PUT THIS MATTER STRONGLY IN FRONT OF ALL GOVERNMENTS ESPECIALLY DEMOCRACIES
ReplyDeleteHer: but you must respect all religions
ReplyDeleteMe: and if my religion calls on the sacrifice of red-headed twins on the full moon? Would you respect it.
Her: NO, because that would not be a religion. Religions teach you to be kind and loving, not cruel.
Me: So, if someone says that their religion calls for them to whip you, it is not a religion?
Her: If they said that, I would know they were lying. Making it up and pretending to justify it with their religion.
Religions are good, they teach you to love each other, we must respect them.
Me: What if we just respect the people ... and leave the religion to take care of itself?
Her: You don't really mean that, you are just being nasty.
Someone has graciously created a forum for people who have accepted the challenge to inform their fellow non-Muslims about the disturbing nature of Islamic doctrine. You can find the forum here:
ReplyDeleteTalk About Islam Among Non-Muslims
Please feel free to join the conversation. And my thanks go to the volunteer who created it.
Interesting idea, this forum -- for reverse indoctrination! Suggestion: Teach the islamics the Christian Bible, and show them where their koran was lifted and twisted from it and the Talmud, by an angry orphaned boy who found the tools to exact revenge.
ReplyDeleteWestern Feminista, if you are subscribed to these comments, would you please email me? I have a question for you:
ReplyDeletecitizenwarriorgeneral@gmail.com
Here are some thoughtful responses to the question: How do we reach people and get through to them about Islam?
ReplyDeletehttp://elsasblog.com/getting-heard.html
Keys to defeating/neutralize Islam
ReplyDeleteWhat is the biggest impediment to having a critical mass of people (non-muslim’s and muslims), able to see the connection between islam/Muhammad and the threat/ annihilation to cultures/societies/countries?
Certainly muslim’s, who have had 1400 years to perfect their deception, through the use of taqiyya, are a huge part of this. However, islamists are only a small part of our (non-muslims), ability or inability, as a society, to be able to connect the dots that will easily show us that islam (meaning the texts of islam and the actions of it’s prophet Muhammad), is what causes muslims to want to take over the world through any means possible. Islam’s prime directive is, essentially, to get people to convert to islam or be killed. This comes from the texts of islam itself, as well as, the words and actions of Muhammad.
There are a sufficient number of people who are writing books or setting up websites that connect the dots and expose islam for what it is, an expantionist and murderous ideology which has a plan to subjagate and kill all non-muslims. So, why is this message, which is not very difficult to understand, so difficult to get out there to the public?
I would say that the primary impediment to waking people up to this very real threat, is Political correctness. If political correctness were somehow weakened or destroyed, then the message that the counter jhadists are trying to get out there would get through. This would result in a cohesive and coordinated response to islam.
How to expose political correctness?
If political correctness if the enemy, then, as Sun Su said, know thy enemy. Essentially, political correctness is a denial of reality, and in it’s place, is a preferred reality. In my opinion, there needs to be a team(s) of people in the counter jihad movement whose job it is to expose and weaken PC. This will have the effect of assisting the ones who are trying to expose islam for what it really is. If PC were to be exposed, then islam will be exposed-there is a direct connection. We need to take on PC if we want to preserve freedom and defeat islam. Btw, obviously PC comes out of leftism but we don’t need to fight leftism necessarily, just PC, in order to accomplish our goal of getting our message out there.
The World is Changing – Clash of Civilizations
ReplyDeleteCivilizations are just too different to exist peacefully, conflict is inevitable. Religious and cultural differences provide fertile ground for clashes between civilizations. Whether it is Star Wars or the real world!
So here we are again are at a great turning point in the History of the World. Great upheavals that change the direction of all civilizations only usually happen in millenniums. The Giant Hinges of History are turning, and leaving debris scattered throughout the World as they turn.
Colonialism forged the Middle Eastern States after World War II. The sects, tribes and clans of the region did not choose the borders and the names of the new countries. Some were born, others remained the same. The overall mix did not work and is unraveling before us. The sects, tribes and clans were unwilling or unable to govern as independent nations that had been set up by the colonial powers of the West. The entire West has no concept of the Arab world and its philosophy. To wit, it is now all falling apart from Bagdad to Kabul to Cairo to Tripoli to Damascus. The region is on fire.
The only single adhesive that holds any power in restructuring the region is Islam and even within Islam the factions are bent on destroying each other’s governing power.
The reality is that there is nothing the West can or should do to prop up or support any of these warring factions, sects, tribes and clans. The reason being that once the dust settles they will all turn in their full power at their common enemy, the infidel non-Muslim!
We are at war not because we choose to be but because it is being thrust upon us, it is about survival. To quote Allen West: "The first step in combating evil is being honest with ourselves about the scale of that which we are facing and who’s behind it. We have to now understand that it is an Islamic totalitarianism, a great black cloud that stains our age, and it’s up to us to rise to the occasion of defeating it. We must come to the grips with a theocratic political ideology that is fundamentally the antithesis to our American principles, way of life, and our values."
Daniel Pipes understands. In National Review Online, Pipes, president of the Middle East Forum, writes, "Islamism is the third totalitarian ideology following fascism and communism."
Cal Thomas writes: “The question now is will the rest of the world develop a strategy for destroying (not containing, because it will not be contained) Islamism as it did fascism and communism?
We must develop the strategy or we will all be under Islam as followers or we will perish.
The choice is clear and the path is to put people in office who will make America strong again and who will bring back the policies and moral character that made us the Greatest Nation on Earth, God Bless America!
Knight Dajon Lyon KtGC.OTNC www.thenewcrusader.com
Thank you. That's Mostly what I have to say, is Thank You.
ReplyDeleteI have difficulty expressing my concerns about Islamic Law primarily because I get too passionate. The advice here about Socratic technique, or comparison to other cults.
But even with my husband, I get glazed eyes, and he believes I am not seeing "their perspective," when, it is their religious text, their sharia, their prophet I am discussing.
So I take on board all your wise advice and hope that in future I can discuss this with NO emotional charge, dispassionately, and convincingly.
Thank you.
JanCarol
Good for you, JanCarol! Sometimes even very important things are ignored by everyone at first. Like the struggle for women to gain the vote in America. It took 70 years!
ReplyDeleteWe've written a handbook that might help in this task. It's called Getting Through: How to Talk to Non-Muslims About the Disturbing Nature of Islam.
We MUST reach people. And yes, ideally with very little emotional charge, and convincingly.
Luckily for us it's only the wahhabists in Saudi Arabia (U.S. ally) and extremely conservative Sunnis, that take literal meanings from the Koran. Most Sunnis aren't wahhabists...so hell yeah, win for us! Also, I'm sure all you folks in the right-wing Internet machine have heard of Sufis. They're a completely different strain of Islam...generally a more peaceful folk because they use the Koran as a moral guide, though they do worships different Islamic leaders than Sunnis, Shias (another strain of Islam), and Alawites (yet another strain of Islam), all of whom are proud of their unique religious identity. The jerks in the bunch (mostly wahhabists) kill for their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteJust like the people who think someone actually lived in a whale, or the Christian Zionist folk who think every natural and man-made disaster is a sign of the End Times prophecy, there are some people who take the Koran and their belief system way too seriously.
Your arguments would stand a stronger ethical and moral test if you were trying to argue against extreme religion in general. But you're not. You're focusing on one religion. You're also conflating the issue by grouping all Muslims together as arch-conservative Wahhabists. This is why people think you're being racist. Re-examine your worldview on Islam. Some sects of Islam are so small that they exist only within one Ethnic group or rural community. Be more nuanced in your approach and people might take you seriously...because I kinda agree with what you're saying, but I do not respect your approach on ethical and moral grounds.
All you folks in Bush and Palin country, it's WAHHABISTS that need to be stopped! This strain of Islam is not good for progress. Just look at the political system and culture of Saudi Arabia, a major U.S. ally. It's a scary place.
Citizen Warrior I'm studying your blog, and others, for a paper I'm presenting at a conference on political Islam. My paper is about the lack of a understanding of Islam that your blog and books, like the Simple Koran, present to the American public. I'd like to know what you have to say about my argument...but to all the honest Christian, Jews, and Ex-Muslim converts that happen by this post...please have at it.
Jeff from Chicago
Saudi Arabia is spending about US$ 5 Billion a year to pomote their Wahabbi sect of Islam around the world. Many "moderate" Muslims countries like Indonesia and Malaysia have been influenced by Wahabbism from Saudi Arabia.
DeleteHello, Citizen
ReplyDeleteThanks for the opportunity for like-minded people to participate in discussion here. Your blog is excellent and educative.
I agree totally with the psychology behind your recommended approach. My particular interest is in the growth of Jew-hatred in the West and the extent to which it is driven by Islam. If I may, I would like to share a incident I experienced recently:
I live in a town which has a large, and so far peaceable, Muslim population. I recently came back from a trip to Israel and went in to the voluntary work bureau where I give two days a week.
The receptionist asked me where I had been and I told her. She told me that she was "amazed" that I could even think of visiting such a country. There then ensued a wide ranging discussion during which I found out where she had got her information from (the UK Guardian, and she had swallowed that whole and uncritically), and then onto the influence of Islam in the world. I got the "Islam is a religion of peace" and I patiently and politely explained why it most definitely was not, and how governments in Muslim countries use the plight of the Palestinians to distract their populace from their own corruption and human rights abuses, and, most importantly to continue to promulgate the Jew-hatred of the Muslim prophet.
"That can't be true," she said, but she couldn't explain why not.
I asked her what she thought of the increasing encroachment of sharia law in the UK. "It's their culture," she said. I asked her whether she had difficulty with the imposition of this culture on her and whether she, as a woman, was comfortable with the sharia oppression of Muslim women. I asked her whether the answer might lie in better education for Muslim women, and we got on to university education here in the UK
I mentioned her how many universities in the UK are in receipt of funding from Saudi, which then dictates what can be taught in them. Was she comfortable about that? She said that she had no proof that it was happening (as a Guardian reader that was understandable - the Guardian would never publish that)
This was a relatively calm discussion but it caused this woman discomfort and considerable cognitive dissonance.
She and I are still on speaking terms - I feel sorry for her because like so many UK citizens she is ignorant about Islam and its influence and impact on societies which assume that because they are inclusive and open-minded, it will be too. I shan't back away from further discussions of this sort.
She probably grew up listening to Piers Morgan. They need to take him back to UK!!
DeleteI think the key to dealing with Islam lies with the women.
ReplyDeleteAtheist Bruce,
ReplyDeleteDo you mean pushing globally for more human rights for women in Muslim countries?
Go Babs! You never know what will happen from conversations like that. I've heard from lots of people who were originally awakened by just such a conversation. Many of them started looking into Islam just to prove the other person wrong, only to discover to their horror that they were right.
ReplyDeletePeople get discouraged by the resistance they get and the ignorance they run into, but that is exactly how change happens in this world. At first new, revolutionary information is rejected and ridiculed. Then it is accepted by a few, who are considered fringe. Then it is gradually accepted by more people, and eventually people can't imagine thinking any other way. In fact, that's how multiculturalism became so widespread. 500 years ago it would have been absurd for anyone to assert that all cultures have an equal legitimacy. It was originally rejected and ridiculed.
On the limited occasions when I have talked about islam to non-muslims, I always start out talking by assuming they know what I know. I know it sounds "crazy", but it actually has worked. When they question me - like asking me "what are you talking about?" I ask, "Didn't you know that? (about sharia law, for instance) I site chapter and verse from the quran or the umdatt al salik. If they say no, then I shrug and say that I thought everyone knew that and tell them if they want to know more, they should look it up. This happened when I was discussing the Shafia case.
ReplyDeleteHey folks, I grew up in northwest Florida and little town called Lynn Haven. We had all kinds of churches there and I attended a Methodist church all my childhood years. We had very few, if any Muslims in Lynn Haven, and very few in the US then. We didn't know where Saudi Arabia, any of the "Stans" were then and had no idea about Jihad, or any "had's" as far as that goes, and frankly didn't care. We listened to Little Black Sambo, and the radio programs of that time that were trying to tell something about that part of the world, and it was fun and exciting to hear it. But now, I wish we still didn't know anything about Saudi Arabia, the "stans" especially Afghanistan, and wish the Muslims would stay home and keep their religion there with them. Since the beginning of this false religion it has caused death, misery, and has almost had the whole world at war, all because of a hand maidens son. God put those people in the middle of the desert for a reason, he put seas around them, punished them for holding christians hostage and making slaves of them and sent plagues to their sorry countries. I have spent several years in those countries where the muslims live and thrive, there is slavery there, they treat people awful and they are evil, wicked, ungodly people! Islam should be banned from the world!
ReplyDeleteI am relieved to find CW site, the first tactical/strategic brainstorming discussion I have ever come across. A scholar in Israel first connected the dots for me with the history of Mo and the Medina Jews and how eternally significant this is.Why the conflict never can end... That was 4 years ago and ever since have researched and published articles re campus indoctrination... I would like to team up in -person with a working group if I could find one in the SF Bay Area, CA.I need to do this not just on computer.
ReplyDeleteRima Greene
Rima, you should definitely join an ACT! for America group. I'm sure there are chapters in SF. Campus indoctrination is a vitally important thing to work on. Read more about ACT! here.
ReplyDeleteIslamic doctrine is certainly very unsettling but do Muslims care about how Non-Muslims feel about their doctrine? They are hard wired to believe that Islam is the only true religion and the only eligible religion. Their goal is to rapidly increase their population across the world so that they could force all other religions into submission and, eventually, into extinction. This may sound like a baseless allegation but I am from India and I can see this already beginning to take its course.
ReplyDeleteWhile some of us would like to debate on Islam and think of sensible ways to tell Muslims to be tolerant of other religions, we cannot match their aggressiveness, and their willingness to impose their faith on others. To them, ends are important, not the means.
It is both believable and terrifying Mr Non-Muslim! We need to unite ourselves as is happening and share the fears and the experiences. From that will will deduce what is needed to combat this growing menace despite the political leaders who have sold the soul of their nations!
DeleteI never recommend people talk to Muslims or try to debate them. What we're trying to master here is talking to non-Muslims and actually getting through to them so they accept that Islamic doctrine is dangerous to non-Muslims.
ReplyDeleteRead more about it here: The Bare Bones Message
I do understand. But talking to non-Muslims in India has never been a challenge to me as they and I sail in the same boat in the disturbed waters. I am aware that some non-Muslims don't see Islamic doctrine as dangerous to them. It's just that they have not been affected by it, yet.
DeletePolitical action to prevent Islam's expansion is not going to be possible in India for a few more decades, if not centuries. But I guess it'll be too late even by then considering the rapid pace at which Muslims in the country are growing in number.
ReplyDeleteA huge majority of our population dwells in rural regions and these people are blind supporters of the Congress Party which has indulged itself in 'vote-bank politics' ever since India attained independence in 1947. The Muslims declared that they wanted a separate state for themselves while India was gearing up to celebrate its hard earned Independence. Pakistan was born after a historical communal violence, but some Muslims chose to live in India. Now they have become a strong political force. The Congress Party and a few other mainstream political wings, largely rely on Muslim votes in key areas. Our rural population is ignorant, careless and totally oblivious to national, international situations. So, that's how it has worked out all so well for Islam in India, at least so far.
So, as I fight alongside such great warriors against Shariah and the civilization jihad happening across the world, the bottom line is everyone says we, Infidels, must read the Quran to know it's evil. So, here's my question: What about the "sheep" out there that would only gloss over and think... "Oh this is for me!". There are so many that read and do NOT understand or see the truth. I worry that reading satan's bible would just draw them in. Your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI'm new to this site but inspired by the comments. I believe people are naturally not inclined to follow the Quoran, it is anathema to them. Many that I have talked to just need to understand the chaos, the mess that our leaders have treacherously led us into! Once we all fully awaken to what is happening around us, then we need to know what we must do and how to act! All strength to you and us all!
DeleteMy thoughts are: You must not have read the Koran yet. It couldn't possibly draw them in. People do not become Muslims by reading the Koran. They are forcibly or deceptively drawn in by other Muslims.
ReplyDeleteI would agree. Most Muslims do not even know what Koran says, let alone understanding it. Besides, their fanaticism about Islam is not an outcome of their reading and understanding the Koran, but rather the result of indoctrination by the already indoctrinated. How else can one explain the Muslims' outright disregard for other religions and the uncritical acceptance of their own?
DeleteYou can explain the outright disregard for other religions by what it says in the Koran. Here is a list of 527 passages from the Koran that communicate intolerance or hatred toward people of other religions:
DeleteIntolerance Toward Non-Muslims in the Koran
But you're probably right that most people get their understanding of the Koran from other people who have read it, rather than from reading it themselves.
DeleteWhat Mr. Non-Muslim says is correct. Indians are in grave danger. Democracy has spoiled the entire political system in India. In India we have a multi party system so the entire Indian votes are divided amongst the parties. Muslims are united and follow the order of their supreme Priest and vote only a particular party, which eventually wins the election and comes in Power. Today India is sufferring this and tomorrow the west will suffer the same fate.
ReplyDeleteI believed I had awakened and had my eyes and ears opened to the behaviour and doctrines of this insidious cult, but just reading through these comments - my eyes are wider! Thanks for that! Now to further spread the word!
ReplyDeleteIt is very refreshing to see a site full of tuned in Warriors!
ReplyDeleteI first saw the light following former muslims about a year ago,
but NO ONE takes it seiously. It can be discourageing, but I attribute
this to fact (the insidious nature of a deathcult) being stranger than fiction.
Stranger than fiction. Definitely. And it is ugly and scary, so it is something people really WANT to find a way to discredit. Many people really don't WANT to believe it. And then there is the West's Achilles' heel:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.citizenwarrior.com/2011/03/achilles-heel-of-west.html
The best book so far that I've come across to help us in our quest to get through to people is Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt.
There is some good material now, from a Danish guy, Nicolai Sennels, regarding the psychology of Muslim criminals. (He works in a prison.) He discusses several key personality traits that are different from a Danish criminal, and all stem from the indoctrination of Islamic values, from an early age.
ReplyDeleteHe even talks about the detrimental health effects, like unhappiness, and sleep disorders.
It is fascinating to see these traits spoken of , since they are what you see in comments posted, every day!
Sennels' work is fascinating. Anyone interested in reading more about it, check it out here:
ReplyDeletehttp://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/07/psychological-differences-between.html
To introduce infidels to Islam I bring up current news, for example the kidnapped girls in Nigeria. I point out that Mohammed captured tribes and sold off the woman and men. From there it is easy to explain the life of Mohammed which Islam is based on. It is a real eye opener to those not familiar with Islam.
ReplyDeleteamazed -
ReplyDeleteI thought I cant be alone..I cant cry alone...the Somali Muslim living in the the flat next to mine tried everything to radicalize me it all failed and I never thought I would be typing this today...he forced e to take the Qu'ran by saying his little son had chosen it specially for me...he tried browbeating me sent poison pen letter and then proceeded to beat on my window every time I was in the bath...he lied about things. The first week he moved in he stated he was a POLICEMAN...when I asked him which force ie The greater London for instance...he said " Y4es." I wont bore you with the rest of his nonsense..then he watered it down to a trainee then his memory failed him and he became a cleaner.[..this is the only truth ever to come from his lips]....I am not able to use my front room or watch television or listen to the radio...he is a bully and had to call the local police to stop it all boiling over...I am sorry to say its not much help.
They did not mind he posed as a policeman...I thought that a criminal offence...I am 70 and am upset by what has happened to our country its like we have enemies in our beighbourhoods..we are not allowed to do anything to upset them..please give me advice,I am an artist if you need any artwork on flyers etc....but I should think you have lots of volunteers...
I'm sorry you have to deal with such an aggressive Muslim. I hope he moves away from you.
ReplyDeleteAbout your offer: Artwork is a very important way to communicate our message, and one of the ways we've been educating people is with our Facebook page, Inquiry Into Islam (https://www.facebook.com/inquiryintoislam). Send us any artwork images (600-900 pixels wide) and if it's good, we'll post it. Artwork plus a message is best: A pithy quote by Robert Spencer, for example. Or whatever. Be creative. We like posting things that people who already understand would WANT to share with their Facebook friends who might not yet understand that the Islamic doctrine is dangerous to non-Muslims.
I have tried talking to 3 different friends -- not at the same time -- about Islam. With two of them it was after I had read the Koran and a few other things that began to educate me about Islam, but before I had come across Citizen Warrior. With the 3rd, I had started reading Citizen Warrior, and I think that helped.
ReplyDeleteThe first friend said:
There are over a billion of them out there, they can't all be wrong.
I know a lot of Muslims and none of them are like that.
I e-mailed her some information from Robert Spencer's site. She got mad at me, said she felt I was pushing this on her, and wouldn't talk to me for weeks! Now when we do talk, we have to avoid the subject altogether.
The second friend said:
Christianity has lots of violence in its history.
In France, the Christians killed lots of people.
Islam is a young religion -- much younger than Christianity and Judaism. Maybe they all have to go through phases like this.
And what about Rumi? What about the Sufis? (she likes them). I didn't know, and she didn't want to discuss it further.
The third friend seemed receptive at first, and then she started talking to others about it, and one of those she talked to was taking a college class in religions and the teacher of that class had advised them to watch "Islam: Empire of Faith". So my friend got a copy and watched it and is now more or less and apologist for Islam. I also got a copy and watched it and it is indeed a beautifully made film -- but oh so biased in favor of Islam, with much glossed over, or omitted altogether, while painting Muhammad in a rosy light. When I tried to point this out to my friend, she said she once had a Turkish boyfriend and he was a Muslim, and you'd never know he was any different than anyone else. Her final objection to further discussion was, "Well, how far can they really get? The vast majority of Americans are not going to convert to Islam, and I'm sure the government knows what's going on -- it's in the news all the time -- so people like you and me don't have to worry about it." This did give me pause, but I still think it's important to try to educate people about the true nature of Islam, and I will continue to do so whenever I get the chance. I think I have to read Citizen Warrior a few more times, though, to get some good responses thoroughly in my head so I am not so often at a loss for words.
First of all, congratulations on your efforts. It takes courage to talk about Islam with people. Even though it seems you've run into a brick wall with all three of them, you never know. I've heard from enough people who eventually changed their minds about Islam that a friend had said something but at the time they weren't willing to accept it, only to later realize that friend had been right.
DeleteSome people in the government know what's going on, but not all of them, and those who know often have a difficult time pushing forward any practical solutions because politicians don't want to have anything to do with offending Muslims.
Something you could read that would help you with this particular objection is Robert Spencer's book, Stealth Jihad. Violence is only one of many ways to wage jihad. Gaining concessions is one of those ways, and it has been very effective. Even now, one of the concessions the OIC is trying to gain, using the U.N. (where the OIC is the largest voting bloc), is a limit to free speech in all countries, including the U.S., all under the guise of preventing hate crime toward religious minorities. Read more about concessions:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/07/concessions-to-islam-are-sharia.html
Also, I recommend these resources to you, especially Answers to Objections:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2011/04/tools-for-our-educational-mission.html
Thanks for your informative response, and the recommendations, and links. I've ordered a copy of Stealth Jihad.
DeleteI have read several books on Mohammed and the one I found to be the best is: The Life and Religion of Mohammed by Rev. J.L. Menezes. It is easy reading, under 200 pages, factual and keeps your interest. The end chapter rebuts the reasons why Muslims consider Mo. a prophet and explains who may have been the real authors who compiled the Koran.
DeleteI found that people in general are not interested in hearing about Islam however they are interested in current events. If I want to educate people about Mohammed I first start talking about current events, especially ISIS.
ReplyDeleteAfter I get their attention I ask them if they no anything about Mohammed the founder of Islam, 99% of the time the answer is no, that is my lead in to educate them and boy do I educate them about the child raping degenerate warload founder of Islam and the "perfect man." Also if you need to explain the American Muslim attacks on the US (ie: the Boston Marathon, Ft. Hood, etc.) I like to use the phrase Sudden Jihad Syndrome
caused from years of indoctrination.
On Dr. Elsa Schieder's blog, she recently asked her readers the following questions:
ReplyDelete"How best do we reach lots and lots more people with all this information, people currently resistant to it?
"I have a slightly different question: What has worked best for you? Maybe especially, do you have any surprise success stories?
"I also have a second question: Is there any resource, help, assistance, that you would especially like, in your counter-jihad efforts?"
She published 22 of the answers, and some of them are quite good. You can read the answers here: Strategies for Getting Heard.
Damon Whitsell, the creator of The Religion of Conquest, published an interesting article about his own experiences trying to convince a friend's son that Islam is not a religion of peace. Whitsell admits he didn't do a very good persuasion job, and when you read their exchange, you have to agree with him. He's hard on the kid and too self-righteous.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he gets some good points in, gets a few facts to penetrate, and after the kid stopped talking to Whitsell for eight months, he came back after he looked into Islam on his own, and had to admit Whitsell was right about Islam. It is a triumph of the facts.
And it illustrates the point that you don't really have to convince someone Islam is a dangerous ideology. You only have to convince someone to look into it. The true nature of Islamic doctrine speaks for itself without any emphasis or embellishment on our part.
Read the blow-by-blow transcript of Whitsell's interaction with his friend's son here: With Facts I Helped Open Someone's Eyes to the Dangers of Islam (You Can Too)
I found a way to reach other non-Muslims!! It's through an excellent book I read earlier this month. Yes, it is a fiction. But the plot could DEFINITELY happen! I recommended it to a few of my more "lib" friends who constantly take up for Muslims. They see (or rather, saw) them as "harmless". This book takes place in the not too distant future in the United States. And Islam controls the U.S. in this book. When I read it, it scared me more than I already am. It made me worry more than I already do. It shows the horrific brutality that is Islam. It shows what they would do to us "infidels". When one of my friends read it, they thought the author we overboard with the violence toward infidels. I told them to look it up. As far as I could see, the author (or I think maybe it's written by 2 authors under one name. I can't recall off the top of my head) used REAL historical data. That did it. This book changed their mind so I'm going to talk about it where ever I can. I hope this is ok, but if this isn't allowed, then please delete my comment. The book is called "Toxicity" by A. Fraser. I got it on Amazon.com. Love your site, btw!
ReplyDeleteThat day is ever nearer especially with biden et al !!!
DeleteNice post thank you Delia
ReplyDelete